nyc1115_wv : I appreciate your input, for providing an alternative viewpoint to a category of discussion here that is perhaps sometimes overly dominated by the "why can't they just leave us alone" attitude.

I am not certain whether this input is coming from a committed trail user who really has no interest in railways, but at this point I am guessing you at least are rational and objective on the matter at hand. Perhaps the volunteer/free market funded model of railway corridor revival is too weak to tackle the job in a timely manner. What is the problem here, though, is the question I think.

Did the corridor revival plan set a schedule that was too short? Was there no feedback loop between implementation and planners that solved dilemmas as they arose? Would a little financial/physical input or commitment by the public sector helped out in a huge way at some point?

Maybe I am off base, but I can't think of any rail-trails in the US that are completely or mostly functional via volunteers and donations (U.S. Bike trail #1 the Illinois Prairie Path - ex Chicago Aurora and Elgin railroad - used to have work days to build trails, but even now it is maintained by the entities owning the ROW, rather than the non-profit). Cities, counties, and states play huge roles, and usually are the primary party involved.

If even a limited amount of local input were available to help a heritage railway, I think it would go a long way.

To fold in discussions of other threads, I wish that more seriousness was given to Rails With Trails in situations such as this. We as a planet need to move on from dualistic perspectives, with either/or options, winners and losers. Rails with Trails is very often a reasonable compromise that allows for both amenities to coexist.

The problem with 'rail and trail' on this particular line is that in many places the ballast prism effectively defines the ROW, and any parallel trail of the necessary width to support hikers and bikers together -- to say nothing of snowmobiles! -- would be tremendously expensive to grade and finish. Even if it were possible to build the new trail in the wilderness reserve that abuts the ROW.

There isn't an easy answer to this. The sensible thing is to require ARTA to provide hard commitments to its "alternative" funding, including exactly where and how much they will be paid for the 'salvage'. Perhaps the business owners that are so gung-ho to supply tourists with supplies will provide a collective PG for all the development expense and/or take out a completion bond to ensure the Great Work is actually completed as touted. Most of the controversy would dry up in short order if the folks pushing the conversion had to have appropriate 'skin in the game' rather than a state-sponsored opportunity to get the 'summer people'.

I beleve if this was a private railroad and the tracks were removed it would revert back to forever wild no bikes or snowmobiles but it's the state and they will do what ever they want. We can complane all we want but once their minds are made up nothing will change. The four wheelers will rip everything up there is no way to keep them out.
Al

Speen: You mentioned the right-of-way of the Washington & Old Dominion Railroad, now a popular bike trail, and asked, "Can anyone point to a case where a line that was 'banked' under RTT was ever rebuilt as a rail line?"

About 15 years ago, when the DC Metro Silver Line to Dulles was still in the planning stages, we had one of its planners as the guest speaker at our monthly rail buff group membership meeting. He mentioned his planning group had considered swinging the line a little to the north, using part of the W&OD right-of-way to bring the new line closer to Reston Town Center, reducing the walking distance between the station and the Center. Apparently that didn't go over well. In fact, it had the effect of whacking a hornet's nest, and our speaker said his planning group received quite an earful from above about their proposal. Lesson learned: once a right-of-way becomes a trail, especially a popular one, it is off limits to any future rail use.

Had the W&OD been preserved as a rail line, today we might have VRE service west to Leesburg and beyond, and we might be a lot closer to having rail to Dulles. (Admittedly the line would have required rebuilding to handle VRE trains but the route was there.) Instead, well, we walk and bike. Progress?

Yes.

Norfolk Southern rebuilt a 5 mile branch that was abandoned long ago between Saltsburg and Clarksburg, PA, to end a very long route (102 mi.) for coal trains serving the Keystone Power Plant in Shelocta, PA:

"NorfolkSouthern Railway to Break Ground Monday-Clarksburg- Norfolk Southern Railway will break ground at 9am Monday at the former Evergreen Farms along Clarksburg Road for a 16.28 mile rail line that will save 102 miles on hauling coal by train fron the Mon Valley to the Keystone Generating Station ,near Shelocta. NS is building 5.28 miles of a new,single line track from Saltsburg to Clarksburg and rebuilding 11 miles of track fron Clarksburg to Shelocta.Rudy Husband,NS Corp. spokesman,said the rail line improvements will provide a direct and safe route from mines in Washington and Greene counties to the plant.He said the new line at Saltsburg will connect to NS's Conemaugh line to bring coal from the south,instead of taking a round-about northerly route over a 120-year-old track with steep grades from Pittsburg thru Freeport, Punxsy, Marion Center and Creekside to the Keystone Generating Station.The change also eliminates 50 road grade crossings used by the 110-unit coal trains,saving on the use of fuel and reducing air pollution in southwest and central PA.,according to Husband.Many guest speakers will be attending."

I guess in western PA we have a couple examples:

http://triblive.com/x/valleynewsdispatc ... z3t7zkZaLk

The Kiski Junction Railroad operates 11 miles of former PRR Allegheny Valley Railroad (Conrail) that was removed in the early 1980's and rebuilt in 2007 to service a Rosebud Mining loading operation. It ruined some plans for a rail-trail, but the property was obtained via eminent domain with little problem.

My understanding is the Remsen-Lake Placid Rail Corridor not qualify for railbanking and will have no protection this affords a ROW (if you call it that). Something like 9 locations in the US have had rail reinstalled on railbanked corridors, and trail groups have fought some of them.

Also, I do not understand why DOT/DEC and trail supporters believe ASR was supposed to rehabilitate this entire rail line at it's own expense and effort; on 30 day lease arrangements.

Amtrak's Post Road branch SouthEast fro Rensselaer, N.Y. was abandoned and torn up by PennCentral. I don't know if PC still owned all of the land when Amtrak bought.

When The Shore Fast Line was restarted, Jimmy McHugh had me do title searches on the old right of way between McKee City and Mays Landing, N.J. in case it became desirable to rebuild that section of abandoned line. The property was well chopped up and dispersed, Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines no longer owned any of it.

Do not hate RTT. Hate its radical elements. All groups have their radical elements, from Islam and Christianity to Rails to Trails and Railfanning. Any good cause taken too radically becomes evil, but that does not invalidate the cause.

There's railbanking, there's Rail Trails and there's Rail Trails with railbanking. I think you are wanting to know about the third, but I think more trail cases are the second.

Right off hand the Northern Pacific Stampede Pass comes to mind as a railbanked corridor minus track (I think it was at least partially removed). It was fully reactivated in the late 1990s. However there was no trail installed while it was railbanked. Most of the trails I'm familiar with were NOT railbanked but rather the land was purchased (or the right of way was purchased) for trail use.

I see nothing to indicate any plan for railbanking in the Adirondacks. Just conversion.

I believe that line was 'embargoed' and never 'abandoned' - it sat unused, but was never 'not a railroad'.

CD