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 Post subject: Re: Handcar death
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:02 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:02 am
Posts: 293
This discussion does raise the question of why the inexperienced general public seems to assume that having handcar operators face each other is the "normal way".

Here's my theory: https://www.google.com/search?q=lionel+handcar&client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us&espvd=1&prmd=isvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJqefs_8vJAhVOwWMKHVVMBokQ_AUIBygB&biw=360&bih=559

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 Post subject: Re: Handcar death
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:56 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3971
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
philip.marshall wrote:
RCD wrote:
We explained in the old days they faced each other so each one could see if a train was coming


Well for what it's worth, this Sheffield ad seems to endorse the practice of having everyone face the same direction, so facing each other can't have been universal.

-Philip Marshall


And judging from the way the buggy was drawn in the background, they also emphasized speed! That's actually a pretty human characteristic when promoting vehicles or other transportation devices.

There's also the question of how these things are portrayed in movies. We have examples in this film collection of handcars pumped both with everyone facing the same way and with the pumpers facing each other. I think it might be significant that in the older silent films the pumpers face the direction of travel, but in later movies, such as the Abbott & Costello clip, the pumpers face each other. I can't help but think movie people started getting this "wrong" that early. I"ve certainly had enough complaints over the years about inaccuracies in movies and TV regarding railroads!

http://www.railroadhandcar.com/video/

Looking at that clip, by the way, brought something else home.

Its introduction by a narrator has him "arriving" on a pump car at what looks like Strasburg. He is pumping alone, facing direction of travel, in the inside position--which is where he would have to be to reach the brake. How would either rider do that with both in the outboard positions as portrayed in Lionel toys and a lot of movies?


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 Post subject: Re: Handcar death
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:15 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2822
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
They face each other so they can speak the lines in the script?

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 Post subject: Re: Handcar death
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:24 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
You'll notice that most of the movie scenes where the characters face other, they have dialog. So the director had a choice... have the characters speak face to face, which most of the audience would recognize as normal, or have them man the handcar correctly, which would only be noticed by a few, if any, in the audience.

It's certainly not the first time that movies have taken liberties with railroad practice, notice in a couple of the older films the engine is running full bore with the cylinder cocks open, for effect, I suppose.

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 Post subject: Re: Handcar death
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:47 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1543
I don’t see a clear documentation of a correct position for pumping a hand car. I doubt that seasoned railroaders worried much about the possibility of getting run over or falling off the leading side. They routinely rode the leading footboards on locomotives. Even if they hung on, a minor derailment could suck them under the engine.

Pulling the pump handle up when standing inside of the handle arc strikes me as awkward. Although the same might be said about pushing it down from outside the arc. There are six standing positions, assuming that the outside of the handle offers only one position in the center. However, there may be reasons for taking an outside position on each side of the handle, so that would be a total of eight positions. With two men on a car in one direction, I can see ten different position arrangements; each with different pros and cons.

In any case, I do think that letting the general public run hand pump cars in races with no safety training is incredibly dangerous. The danger seems to be abnormally unobvious due to being overridden by the nostalgic romance of handcars in movies.


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 Post subject: Re: Handcar death
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:04 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2492
Quote:
Pulling the pump handle up when standing inside of the handle arc strikes me as awkward.


It is not so much 'awkward' as mechanically inefficient. If you are putting your weight on your arms to push the bar down, or lifting with your legs to pull it up, you have a longer effective lever arm, acting through a larger effective arc if you have to 'stand back' a bit when lifting from a low position. It's fairly easy to understand why 'naive' common sense would think that's the "right" position to pump something slow-moving that doesn't have to be steered, and the wide range of popular depictions may be an indication that bears that out.

I had never really thought carefully a bout pumping a handcar from anywhere except the outside position until I read the earlier thread in June and watched Mason Clark demonstrating fairly effortless safe practice at the beginning of his video. I am glad to stand corrected.

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 Post subject: Re: Handcar death
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:24 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
Posts: 728
Quote:
Pulling the pump handle up when standing inside of the handle arc strikes me as awkward.


Once the car is rolling, there is little or no need to pull up on the handle, momentum carries it through until you can push down- even pumping alone on most grades. Unless one expects to break the land speed record, of course.

Steve Hunter


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