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 Post subject: Re: TVRM Passenger Cars
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11832
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Heavenrich wrote:
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
If the operation of the car at TVRM is crucial to their operation, I see no reason that TVRM couldn't re-negotiate extending the lease when the car's lease is up. As long as NCTM retains long-term ownership and eventually gets it "back." It's just a different non-profit entity owning it, after all.

Of course, maybe NCTM sees more value in diversifying representation and bringing in a SAL streamlined car. That's for curators and a BOD to decide.


From a previous message you posted....

"The donation comes from the Bluewater Michigan Chapter of the National Railway Historical Society. As the chapter plans to dissolve this year..."

Pretty hard to renew a lease when you're going out of business and there are some IRS regulations which come into play when a non profit does so.


Anyone but the densest of people, or people who only think literally, would easily figure out that I meant that a new lease would have to be negotiated with the new owner, if so desired. It's entirely a discussion between TVRM and NCTM, or inside the NCTM board, whether the car is better off staying at TVRM at least a while longer, or being sent to NCTM as soon as possible. Heck, even finding a new lessor on more attractive terms could be an option.

Oddly, I've been in this precise situation myself, being a member of an organization that dissolved and voted to turn over the remaining assets to a non-profit museum, at a time when two cars leased by private operators were still out on other railroads, one a couple states away. Both cars, in this case however, were due for repairs of one kind or another, and one operator was not in the best of financial straits, and the operators cancelled the leases and sent the cars "back" to the new owner--fortunately, while the mainline RRs in question were still willing/able to do what amounted to "hospital moves" under "Home Shop For Repair" directives.


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM Passenger Cars
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:34 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1717
To be clear.... my confusion comes from the fact that TVRM is itself a non-profit. I don’t think anyone would question TVRM’s shop capabilities. So again seems a bit of an odd announcement. Obviously the blue water chapter gets to choose who they give their stuff to.... but I also can go “huh... seems strange” when they announce it.


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM Passenger Cars
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:58 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11832
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
To be clear.... my confusion comes from the fact that TVRM is itself a non-profit. I don’t think anyone would question TVRM’s shop capabilities. So again seems a bit of an odd announcement. Obviously the blue water chapter gets to choose who they give their stuff to.... but I also can go “huh... seems strange” when they announce it.

Nobody that I have heard here or elsewhere questions TVRM as a caretaker or a custodian.

The simple issue is that a Seaboard Air Line observation falls outside the mission statement (or, at least, what should be its mission statement) of the TVRM as a historical artifact; whereas as an artifact it DOES fall under the (easily presumed) mission statement and applicable purview of the NCTM, having operated through North Carolina on NY-Florida trains. To TVRM, this car is a tool, not a relic. It's the other way around for NCTM. Further, state-scope museums like NCTM, CSRM, RRMPa, etc. have a duty to broaden their holdings to represent the entire state and multiple railroads, not just SR because NCTM is in Spencer or PRR because it's named "Pennsylvania."

This decision could NOT have been made in a vacuum. No doubt Bluewater personnel had discussions with both TVRM and NCTM (and perhaps other appropriate museums from Va. to Florida) before this happened, and I'm certain that whatever the ultimate outcome, both places are several steps ahead of our wanton speculation. (Well, I hope so.)


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