Well, I'm not saying that yours is definitely not a Baldwin bell; maybe it's a more modern vintage, but you really think the two bells look identical?

Look at the top of the bell. Yours seems to taper more towards the yoke; mine appears flatter, for instance.

Look at the area where the bell meets the yoke. On mine, it's seamless; on yours, there is not only a gap, but the shoulder of the yoke where it's supposed to meet the bell does not match with the shape at the top of the bell.

Those are just a few things that I think are pretty apparent.

Let us know what you find when you remove the top nut.

Here is my Rhode Island bell in its previous life as a lawn ornament, before I purchased it. (Yes, someone thought it was a good idea to dress this beautiful bell up with white housepaint -- just awful. I'm going to have to do something about that...) It's 17" in diameter and 35" tall overall from base to top nut. If you look closely you will notice that the base of the pedestal is angled from front to back, and so a steel wedge or shim (the former owner called it a "leveling block") is required for the bell to remain vertical, which suggests to me it was intended for use on a wagontop boiler. The downward-turned pull arm appears to have been common practice on the New Haven, but I don't know the reason for it.


And here is what I believe to have been one of the engines that carried the bell, New Haven No. 960 (ex-158). Note the location of the bell right at the flare of the wagontop boiler:


And a close-up of the 960's bell, to compare with mine:


-Philip Marshall

Steve -

Thanks for pointing these features out. Please remember that I'm not the one that brought up the possibility that this was a Baldwin bell. I just don't know. Hopefully, I'll be able to find some time at the museum to check out the shaft after the top nut is removed.

Les

Philip -

Even with the white paint, the bell looks great! Also, thanks for the photos of NYNH&H Ten-Wheeler #960.

Les

The number and "S" cast into the yoke and shown in the original photo might be a clue to the builder. Are there other bells of known parentage that have similar markings?

Arrived very late to the museum yesterday, so didn't get much chance to check out the bell. I did find out the nut size (1-1/2") but when checking for that, was surprised to see the number 76 stamped into the yoke on both sides of the shaft/nuts. These numbers of course, correspond to the number stamped into the top of the bell itself. Photos of these yoke numbers included below.

Still have to check to see if there is a number on the bell shaft as mentioned earlier in this thread. Will need another set of hands to help with this.

Les

If you can see it, the Baldwin Classification code stamped into the end of the bell, around the ringer bolt hole will look something like this. Other builders did not use this type of code on bells. It will tell you the exact engine the bell was on when it was brand new. Baldwin stamped this code on lots of things, including the back of builders plates. I can figure it out for you if you can find the class number, and post a photo of it.

locopilot750 -

Thanks for the photo! I have to admit that I've been remiss in checking out our bell. Got to try to do that this winter season. I'll try to take a photo and post it here.


Les

Here's how to decipher the Baldwin classification code, given BLW class 10 28/50 1/4 D 112 as an example:

-10 is the total number of wheels on the engine;
-28/50 indicates size of the cylinder and as a fraction it also indicates it was a compound engine (to determine high and low pressure cylinder sizes, divide 28 by 2 = 14 and add 3 = 17" cylinder; 50 is 28" cylinder)
1/4 means the engine had front and rear trucks at ends (e.g., 4-6-2)
D indicates three pairs of driving wheels
112 indicates it was the 112th locomotive built by BLW to this class

K.R. Bell

Baldwin continued to stamp many parts with the classification and serial number as late as 1943. They adopted a new classification scheme around 1940, and Alaska Railroad #556 is 280 19S 809 (wheel arrangement, cylinder bore, steam, and serial number within the class). It's stamped on side rods (although some were swapped with other locomotives while it was in service), and valve gear. The cab is stamped, but was apparently intended for another locomotive and swapped at Baldwin as the serial number is different. When cleaning the cylinder block, the class number was painted in white under the original paint but it also had a different serial number. Although the boiler has a several identifying stamps, the classification and serial number aren't among them.

We have a bell that came from one of the locomotives of that class (the base allows it to be mounted part way down the side of the smokebox). We will have to see if if has a number.

In the example & photo, 10 28/50 1/4 D 112 comes out to be Santa Fe 2-6-2 #1111. That class of locomotive began as AT&SF 1000, and it would have been stamped 001. The 111th engine would have been 112.

locopilot750 -

Thanks for the explanation. I had a little bit of trouble figuring it out, but then it finally all came into focus! Thanks again.


Les

Note that under both the old new classification system that BLW locomotives of totally different designs could have the same classification. For example, at least one locomotive in the 280 19S Classification was narrow gauge. I believe it was outside frame and went to Central America. 2120 locomotives in the same classification were standard gauge War Department WWII Consolidations, but both designs carried the same classification because they had the same wheel arrangement and cylinder bore.

It is interesting to note that Baldwin stopped stamping the classification information on the back of their builder's plates during 1930 as we went into the Great Depression. I have seen plates in March 1930 that had the data on them and I have seen plates later in 1930 that are totally blank on the back. I have handled many plates during the 1930's and beyond and they were all blank on the back.

I only have two Baldwin plates, but one is from a loco built in June of 1930, so must have been one of the last ones stamped. 22 42/42 1/4 EE 27. It should be an SP cab forward. Plate is numbered 61353. (if the plate is legit)