NFPA 54 is the related code that insurance companies would probably require. This covers residential, office and industrial stuff. A lot of high BTU appliances are used in farming to dry things out.

The AGA (American Gas Association) also has industry standards.

There is also the CGA (Compressed Gas Association) which covers all the "industrial" gas cylinders like oxygen, argon, etc. If you get propane for welding work it will be covered by CGA standards. A lot of high volume flame cutting on automated tables is done with Oxy\Propane, not Oxy\Acetylene.

And there is the CSA Group, a voluntary industry group that has standards for outdoor gas grills and indoor/outdoor gas heaters. This is the little "sa" inside a "C" that you see on a lot of stuff.

And some states have their own rules.

Not sure that any of these apply directly to a rr installation, but they are probably a good starting point.

The US DOT has codes for what is acceptable to transport over the road. The 20 lb propane tanks everybody uses for their gas grills are covered by DOT codes.

So the DOT rules get the propane tank safely to your house and the CSA rules keep it from blowing up your house. Makes sense right ?

And the small camping grills with the small propane tanks (hand held size) those grills are covered by CSA, but the tanks are unregulated, unless you have over a certain amount of them then they have to meet DOT rules (mostly placarding). That makes sense also, I guess ?

The 400 gallon semi-permanent tanks (looks like a mini-sub) you see near rural residences (I have one) are not covered by DOT, go figure. They get transported empty and filled once installed on site. And the 400 gallon tanks are not covered by CSA either, go figure ?

Just a big mishmash of codes and rules and regulations, some voluntary, some probably result in fines and jail time if you break them.

Don't anybody complain to the government or there will be another set of "overarching" regulations to keep us safe.

There is a fairly new valve called an EFV (Excess Flow Valve). This is an inline valve that is installed between rigid piping and a flexible appliance connection. If the flex line breaks this valve detects too much gas flow and shuts off automatically. Highly recommended for new residential installs or replacements. Not sure how it would work in a high vibration environment;

http://www.brasscraft.com/Products.aspx?Id=212

This is all for Propane Vapor, i.e. the gas part. It gets called "LP" (Liquefied Propane) but what it really is (once outside the tank) is Propane Vapor.

There are a whole different set of parts/rules for Liquefied Propane (The Fluid) piping. Liquefied Propane is what the propane supplier delivers to storage tanks at residences. The hose needs to be insulated since the liquid is quite cold. There are a few big industrial uses for Liquid Propane.

Cheers, Kevin

This confirms what I have found. All the info in the world about how to bottle it, store it, pump it, transport it (various modes), the different types of lines/pipes/hoses that are acceptable for use and blah, blah, blah. Nothing on instalation in rr cars, campers, trucks (except to heat hazmat storage areas) or any other equipment.

I guess we will just have to rely on common sense and go with what we feel is the safest and best option.

Yeah, it is a big confusing mess.

My suggestions (free, your mileage may vary);

Secure the tank(s) in the safest location (collision wise) that is well vented and outside the "occupied" part of the car

Use a high quality regulator (CSA rated) and rubber hose to connect the tank to the system

Use rigid black iron pipe to distribute the gas (schedule 80 will be more safe than schedule 40 from a collision/vibration standpoint, but both are probably ok)

Firmly secure the rigid piping at appropriate intervals and route it away from the most damage prone areas of the car (around the trucks, exposed under the center sill, etc.)

Install any required regulators outside the "occupied" area of the car (or add piping to exhaust regulator vent ports outside)

Paint the pipe a bright color

Use a high quality flexible connection (rubber or stainless steel) between the rigid piping and the appliance

Add a sediment trap just before the inlet at all appliances

Have at least one person around that can recognize the methyl mercaptan (rotten egg) additive they put in LP so you have a recognized "sniff test" expert onboard

Consider one of these;

http://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft-G ... /202800802

Or get a canary... ha ha ha

Close the valve at the tank when the system is not in use

You should be good to go, just don't ask Amtrak about adding your car to the Late Shore Limited....

Cheers, Kevin

Oh, I forgot one thing, spiders absolutely LOVE propane. I don't know why but they just love the smell of if I guess. Any place where you have an open vent (from a regulator exhaust port) you will want to have a large exit area with a good quality fine screen/mesh (stainless steel recommended).

They will clog up any areas where propane is available for them to smell.

Weird, but I have had appliances fail to function because of "Spider Clogs".

This is especially evident with stuff that only operates for part of the year. I have had properly functioning LP heaters refuse to start up after a summer "down" season simply because the damn spiders have clogged up the vents, or the entrance areas where inlet air is supposed to mix with the LP.

So, when starting up appliances for the heating season check for spider clogs, it will save you some headaches.

Maybe it's just upstate NY spiders ???

Cheers, Kevin.

Nayh, it's northern Illinois spiders, too. We had a gas lamp in a camping trailer that refused to function, Dad took it apart and couldn't figure out how it was supposed to work, because the gas passage in the casting just ended. Turns out it was a woven spider egg sack... it was smooth and gray and looked just like a continuation of the Zamac casting... and impervious to propane, too. After the gas was on a couple minutes, just enough had gotten through to go poof! in the mantel, then go out. A long kitchen match removed the offenders and restored function.

If you are planning on using the long propane tanks like Waukesha used, there are enough cars in museums that still have their Waukesha supplied gas lockers that would make a good prototype for the gas tank carrier, with respect to both strength and venting.

A couple of points regarding propane. When it was used in passenger railroading, for the most part it was used to fuel Waukasha generators or air conditioners (sometimes both) and there was an AAR standard which could be found in the AAR Manual of Standards and Recommended Practices, Part A, Section III, Recommended Practice RP-037, 1955 revision. My reading of that standard is that it is applicable to the aforementioned exterior Waukasha applications and not interior uses such as heaters or cooking, although it has been four or five years since I looked at RP-037 (1955). That's not to say that there were other applications which may have involved interior utilization of the gas, just that I am not aware of them. If you insist upon propane, RP-037 (1955) was an industry standard what was widely applied and used, and as somebody else has noted Waukesha equipment was railroad-grade and stood up to the rigors or rail service.

Since 2011, Amtrak has not accepted new-to-the-system private cars, which are equipped with butane, propane, or other flammable gas. Section 12.33 of the Amtrak Private Car Standard goes on to note that "Once a private car is approved for movement in Amtrak service, it is prohibited to convert a car to a compressed gas fuel system that was not initially equipped at the time of inders are not permitted in the interior or vestibule of a car."

Then there is the whole issue of somehow labeling the car as having flammable gas on board, which I admit is a grey area, at best. Admittedly, DOT regulations don't require placarding of less than 1000 lbs of flammable gas, I believe. A fire chief friend pointed out, though, that emergency responders tend to run toward the event until they see the flammable gas placards, when they back off.

Over the years, I have seen too many sketchy and dangerous propane applications on tourist and excursion railroads, and even on one or two Amtrak private cars, to be comfortable with propane on a passenger application A barbecue container ty-wrapped down, inside an empty battery box, with a rubber hose going up through a rough-cut hole the floor to a cooking station in a converted baggage car doesn't strike me as a good idea.

My opinion, and my opinion only, and worth what you paid...

GFP
Baltimore' MD

Well said George! I to have seen applications in the tourist railroad industry that scare me half to death. Potential hazards regarding installation of these systems should be identified and mitigated as much as possible. Things to think about would include tank location and security in case of derailment or side collision (highway rail crossing?), automatic shut off valves, filling locations, etc.

My 2 cents.....

Mike Ramsey

A reason to use Sched 80 is the regulator could fail and present full vessel pressure to the piping system.

Also part of the cost of pipe is the cost of stocking pipe . A railroad shop will prefer to use pipe already on hand for air brakes .

Here's what a manufacturer of rubber hose for propane has to say on the issue:

ph.parker.com/us/en/lp-gas-propane-hose

The link was forwarded to me by an individual with experience in the business.