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 Post subject: Re: Be Careful with Christmas Music
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:32 pm
Posts: 344
“Free” broadcast music in public spaces? Sometimes OK sometimes not.
My former employment as a broadcast engineer at a State University had us go through this can of worms years ago. The telephone system used our own campus radio station for music on hold. We didn’t care, but the people who represented the musical artists (ASCAP, BMI Etc.) sure did. Our lawyers and telephone guys gave up and went to caned messages promoting the University instead of music.
If it helps here is a link to some public broadcast music fun facts.

http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/2015/07 ... -premises/


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 Post subject: Re: Be Careful with Christmas Music
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:12 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 2559
Location: The Atlantic Coast Line
A non profit I work with has an ascap license for a nominal annual fee of a few $100 that covers background pop music etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Be Careful with Christmas Music
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12145
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
At least one rail museum I have seen had a member that brought in his own 1950s era electric organ (remember those massive things?), and he would play a mix of holiday jingles, carols, religious music, and even just incidental music during the "Christmas trains" events. Now, the catch is, he was good and capable--not everyone who offers such music is. And often the "talented" ones are booked solid this time of year--our NRHS Chapter has one member who is a talented guitarist that is too busy playing gigs this time of year to help in other ways or have a beer with me.

Today, some museum might do well to find sons or daughters of members with musical talent and instruments (like the modern synthesizers) and enlist them.

One subtle tip that helps a bit: the professionals long ago discovered that background music such as Muzak is most effective when played intermittently--I recall the Muzak interval is twenty minutes on, twenty minutes off.


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 Post subject: Re: Be Careful with Christmas Music
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:47 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 3010
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
At least one rail museum I have seen had a member that brought in his own 1950s era electric organ (remember those massive things?), and he would play a mix of holiday jingles, carols, religious music, and even just incidental music during the "Christmas trains" events.


Who plays it, how they play it, and how well it's played are irrelevant. If you play licensed music, of any kind, in any fashion, be it from an 8 track tape player or the full Mormon Tabernacle Choir, as part of a "public performance", you are typically required to pay royalties. There are a few exceptions for commercial radio/TV broadcasts played at your facility, see the link that Buzz posted above for the details.

Now it is quite possible to play a lot of Christmas music that is not licensed, many of the older songs and carols are in the public domain. However, you need to know which ones are licensed and which ones are not.

An operation I worked with had live music on the train. The artist would play a combination of classical music and some of his own tunes. ASCAP would show up a couple of times a year, buy a ticket and ride the train. They'd then ask him to play Happy Birthday or some other common, but licensed, song. Knowing how to play the game, he always politely refused. They also hassled the railroad to pay up, but they also knew the rules and said "We don't play licensed music"


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 Post subject: Re: Be Careful with Christmas Music
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:59 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 1185
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Unless you want to go with non-copyrighted music (for any public performance purpose), it's far more economical to pay the ASCAP license fee. If you don't want to pay for it out of general receipts, get the word out to your membership and solicit donations to cover the cost.

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"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."- Conductor Nimrod Bell, 1896


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 Post subject: Re: Be Careful with Christmas Music
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:05 pm
Posts: 1130
Location: MA
Speaking of music if your orginazation makes videos as long as you give this guy credit you can use any of his songs and he has a massive of library of Music he has written http://incompetech.com/music/royalty-free/


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 Post subject: Re: Be Careful with Christmas Music
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:47 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:08 pm
Posts: 255
Location: Western Railroad Museum - Rio Vista
MEC_557 wrote:
I wonder what the technicalities would be for playing the radio in the station or on the train? For instance anyone in the CT area would know 100.5, and 99.9 (every other song)have switched to Xmas music this month, along with 97.5 WALK on Long Island, I can get that station here too.

For that matter, forget the Xmas music all together, just the radio going. How is this any different than going into stores that have the radio on?


My understanding of the law is that if the radio program goes on to a public address system, then it becomes a public performance. In one case that was litigated to the US Supreme court, a grocery store clerk had a radio playing on a shelf near the cash register. His listening was covered by the radio station's performance license. Customers near the cash register were able to hear the music but it was not on any kind of public address system. The court eventually ruled that music that can be overheard by passers by does not constitute a public performance. ASCAP spent a lot of money litigating this issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Be Careful with Christmas Music
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:53 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2611
Location: S.F. Bay Area
MEC_557 wrote:
I wonder what the technicalities would be for playing the radio in the station or on the train?

Totally illegal, no question. Just because it's common and easy doesn't make it exempt. Fortunately since it's common, it's also very widely licensed, which is to say it's affordable - despite what the arm-wringing chicken littles say. After all, ASCAP and BMI aren't in the "spending money on lawyers" business, they're in the "get paid" business. Their entire mission fails if they price themselves out of reach.

You need to license music if it's a public performance, i.e. "a place open to the public or at any place where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances is gathered."

Everyone who put creative energy into it is entitled to get paid separately. For instance
- the composer
- the arranger
- the performer

So for instance if you play Joe Blow playingPentatonix' arrangement of a medley of Beyonce songs, then Bey, Pentatonix, and Joe get paid.


But mostly, their record companies get paid. Or in the case of artists like Icon for Hire, ONLY their record companies, as they had to sell out their interest in the songs to pay bills. Frankly, artists make almost nothing from music recordings, even Taylor Swift has said flat-out she makes little on recording. Artists make their real money doing concerts and selling swag there. Posters, T-shirts, tour books, that stuff is oxygen to artists.

It's immoral to buy recorded music and rest on your laurels thinking you have compensated that artist.

Back to on-topic, there's something to be said for hiring a band. That actually does pay artists.


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 Post subject: Re: Be Careful with Christmas Music
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:45 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 1185
Location: Tucson, Arizona
As I recall, one of the other legal tests that is often applied to determine whether use of copyrighted music constitutes a public performance is whether a fee is collected for admission/performance. If the music is broadcast (via radio or PA system), that constitutes a public performance. Simply playing music in a public space does not always constitute a public performance (i.e. personal use on radio or other media device). One bright line is when compensation is collected-an admission ticket being one such example.

That said, for seasonal events you may be better off simply hiring a professional sound company or band. They have the necessary licenses to cover your event. Folks I know have licensed through ASCAP-it's not complicated and once you get the license, you've no worries from them.

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"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."- Conductor Nimrod Bell, 1896


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