Correct. These 3 cars were built by Pullman in November 1916 in Lot #4422 to Plan #2502B, and remained in Pullman ownership until being sold in the first half of the 1940's. All 3 cars have been mentioned before within the "Surviving Pullman" thread: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30187. More info:

Manhattan. "Surviving Pullman" thread line item #366. Sold to ACL in February 1944, most likely as #308 (1st) (need to check some of my other notes for verification on this), later (when??) renumbered to #309, to SCL #309, to SBD #309, to CSX #309 (was it actually repainted/restenciled, or even used a lot after the merger?), resold in 1988 to Gulf & Ohio as the Tennessee, at some point (when??) received an Amtrak #800xxx-series number, specifically #800253.

Newport. "Surviving Pullman" thread line item #367. Temporarily renamed to Puretest between March and December 1936 for use in the United Drug Company's Rexall Train; also repainted during this time from standard Pullman Green to Rexall Blue & White. Sold to NP in December 1941 as #4 Gallatin River, later (late 1960's, most likely 1968-69 [I recall]) resold to Andy's Diner in Seattle (not to be confused with their location in Tukwila, WA), Andy's Seattle location closed around 2008-2009 (I recall), restaurant reopened several months later as the Orient Express. I'd have to go back through my other notes to give a tighter timeframe on when the car was resold to Andy's, and when the Seattle location closed.

Palm Beach. "Surviving Pullman" thread line item #136. Sold to the Tennessee Central RY in April 1942, sold or donated to the Nashville Chapter NRHS in 1968, resold/redonated to the Tennessee Central RY Museum in 1993.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Stan Garner's #800xxx-series car listings: http://www.movie-trains.com/pvlist.html

5. Jerry LaBoda's photo links database: http://passcarphotos.info/

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Regarding asbestos abatement: I wish I could remember who, but someone on here, I believe from a west coast group, became certified for asbestos removal so that he could supervise the firm they hired. So, instead of waiting for days to get a chance to see if they destroyed the interior of their car, he could go in while they were working and show them how to carefully remove panels, etc., while they provided the equipment, tenting, etc. I don't recall what he said it cost to be certified, but it would be a lot less nerve wracking knowing what is going on in there.

EPA says the training to become 'asbestos abatement qualified' in Tennessee goes through the state. They say to contact the following to obtain a list of licensed course providers and requirements:

Randall Harrison (NESHAP), 615-532-6828, randall.harrison@tn.gov
Adrianne White, 615-532-0885, adrianne.white@tn.gov

There is an annual 'refresher' training requirement, and EPA specifically notes that this can be fulfilled by online coursework (no classroom, no lab, no field practicum)

In the real world...almost every part of that car either has a component made from asbestos or is covered in asbestos dust. If you hired a professional contractor they would pick that car apart like a Thanksgiving turkey and the cost would far outweight what the car is worth.

In the real world...people who deal with old railroad cars use a lot of shortcuts best not discussed in a forum like this. But basically...they put on some dust masks...stuff the obvious asbestos pieces into garbage bags and dump them in somebody else's dumpster when nobody is looking. It may be repugnant but that is how it is dealt with. I have seen some shops just "not worry about it" and work around the old insulation, often times leaving it in place. They do that at their own risk.

How do you advise a museum with scant resources on how to deal with it? The best course of action would have been to keep the car painted to begin with so they never had to open the sides up (exposing the asbestos)...but they disregarded that advsise years ago and now here we are.

T7

Wow, what a bunch of bad advice in this thread... let me add some of my own.

Who exactly is insisting the car be disassembled for asbestos abatement? In my admittedly somewhat limited experience, abatement is done when OTHER WORK needs to be done that would disturb existing asbestos. If the existing asbestos is contained within the walls, it is encapsulated, and can remain, so long as there is no way for loose fibers to escape and become airborne. This is the reason that display locos with intact boiler jacketing are perfectly OK. They only become a problem when the jacketing rusts through and asbestos starts leaking out through the holes.

If this was my project, I would inspect it for any loose, friable asbestos, and coat that with a sticky spray like auto body undercoating. Then I's plywood over the holes in the car sides, wrap it with one of those shrink wrap tarps, and move it.

When it got to the new home, I'd have a certified contractor tent it while the temporary plywood was removed and the side sheets repaired. Then I'd clean it up and leave it alone. Nobody is going to try to certify this thing for Amtrak service, so why take it apart further?

In the REAL world - In 30 years of doing this sort of thing, 90% or better of rust-throughs on body panels I've seen are from the inside out, typically along the side sill and corners. Window posts are another nasty spot. From the pics of the OP car, that's what they're dealing with. The issue is unavoidable inside-the-wall condensation that comes from steel equipment in an outdoor, ever-changing environment, usually aggravated by a quantity of horsehair or somesuch. NO amount of exterior paint will prevent that, and if you were to coat an entire car with a half inch of paint and seal it up completely you'd only worsen the problem. There have been a couple of discussions on here before on properly cocooning stored equipment and dealing with proper ventilation. The only way to prevent condensation is to put it indoors in a strictly temperature/humidity controlled environment, and that's not what railroads are. Let's applaud them at least for trying - there's too much stuff sitting around with no attention whatsoever. Of course we don't need another half-done abandoned project, either.

Best thing they can do now is deal with the existing problems as best they can, and if they have the resources, try to prevent future problems. One thing if you're going into a long-term rebuild/restoration that I seldom see - properly coat the insides before you put it back together to increase longevity (on plain steel cars only). Of course doing that properly means gutting, completely replacing rotted steel, then coating and reassembling. Takes a lot longer than cut/patch, costs a lot more, and you have to be very careful to preserve what you remove, but the results are worth it. That procedure also benefits from the opportunity to better clean/repair/restore other components, resulting in a better restoration, but it depends on how much 'patina' you have/want to keep. For a heavyweight car like the OP, how are you going to hot rivet new panels on with the interior in place, anyway? Of course you'll weld the patch lines, but those rivets are part of the car's historic fabric, not just to give rivet-counting foamers something to do. These cars were built from the ground up and then from the outside in, and if a RR were rebuilding/updating, that's more than likely how they'd do it - for good reason. They were meant to be depreciated over a given lifespan (10-25 years, depending) and then scrapped/replaced or rebuilt. Preserving is the most difficult of all, not for the timid.

My usual generic for this type of work - estimate by non-experienced persons, triple or quadruple a detailed estimate. Estimate by very experienced persons, double or triple a detailed estimate. Applies to both money and time. Estimate by experienced shop under detailed contract, add 50% money and double the time, minimum. Now you're talking ballpark.

True statement. Given that things have been disassembled to this point, however, two strategies present themselves:

1) Remove the interior below the window sills to allow access to buck the rivets. Since the insulation (whatever it was) has already been removed from these areas, it doesn't seem to be an issue. Bigger problem is dealing with the heating coils along the lower wall, since they likely run through all the bulkheads, which I would NOT want to disturb.

2) Plug welds from the outside, ground flush, followed by fake rivet head appliques. Not as built, but are we preserving the car as an example of period steel fabrication technique, or as an example of the carbuilder's art and styling? The ship has already sailed on the former, I think.

Contact Strasburg for information on the rivet heads; they have developed a technique they use on their all weld tenders.