A lot of ties are cut from low-quality Eastern hardwood logs that weren't good enough to be turned into flooring or furniture. They're defective almost by definition (whether from knots, wane, or just small size), or else they wouldn't have been made into ties! :)

-Philip Marshall

Not sure about plastic ties/concrete, these may be more bolt down the rail than spike them.

I want to equivocate something in model form, I use Homosote for model spiking, then along came an idea to use Celotex, I tested that.
Homosote, newspaper based, still wood in any sense holds the spike in because the material compresses back inot the spike, Celotex is inert, spiking into it expands it and will not compress back in, not holding the spike.

Pretty much why wood ties as its compression on the spike will hold the spike.

http://www.atlasties.com/Products_Plastic.php

seems plastic will compress on the spike.

http://railtec.illinois.edu/PDF/Kos%202 ... 20ties.pdf

about concrete ties and issues

One of the problems is, if you are building track from scratch, you need something to put under the rail. Sounds simple, but unless you've got a government grant, all new is pretty much unattainable.

I think back to my early days at IRM, which started in 1970. At that time they had been at the Union, IL site for six years, had about a mile and a half of track, and one storage yard complete, with a second under construction. It was ALL on used ties. As I understand it, when the collection moved from North Chicago, they also pulled the rail they owned, and took whatever ties were good. As more rail was donated by various industries, the volunteers also took any ties that were good. Those ties were essentially free. As of 1970, I think the only new ties on the property were under the two mainline switches, and funds for those had been pretty dear.

If I can recall correctly, by about 1975, they were beginning tie replacement on the west end, the original track that had been moved from North Chicago. We were also relaying the rail, the mismatched junk rail ending up in one of the barns. Not all ties were replaced, which kept track material expenditures within the budget. Those used ties, salvaged twice at that point, still gave ten years of service, and allowed the museum to get off the ground, so to speak.

In 1982 or 83, at the end of my active involvement, they were doing spot tie replacement on all the operating tracks, but not all the used ties had been replaced at that point. IRM has a nice high ROW profile, left in place from the E&B decades before, and I bet a lot of those used ties served another twenty or more years at their new home.

I bet it's nice to build track with all new material (I wouldn't know, I've never done it). But used track material was the beginning of most our museum groups.

I have to disagree here. We have about 2000 recycled plastic ties in our line here at Shaw AFB, some 300 almost 10 years old now. (115lb rail, class 3 track) I can take a spike puller and dang near hang my 240lb body off the end before a spike will think about pulling out of the oldest ties. I have tried many, just to see. They are holding up remarkable well, and look as new as the day they were installed. Theoretically if you replaced every third tie with plastic, and the gauge held, you could maintain FRA class 2 track for the life of the ties (I was told 125 years based on our track loadings) They cost $108 each the last time they installed them. (we have an Army team from Ft. McAlister, OK do all our trackwork.)




This, exactly this. So you buy a 'relay' tie for $25. It gives 'maybe' 5-10 years of service. In 40 years, you have equaled the cost of that plastic tie in the 4 relays (or more, possibly up to 8) What is the 'cost' to change a tie? It is hard to measure labor when it is by volunteers, some places have machines others just strong backs. But I would be willing to bet by the 3rd time you pull that relay out you are loosing money over installing the plastic from the get go. New ties, you can get 15-25 years out of. So two ties equals the price of that plastic tie. But the plastic tie should still out live you in service.

I agree, going plastic (or composite, as many like to call them) is a huge upfront cost. However my experience shows it cost less in the long run by going with a long lasting tie. (steel and concrete fall into this category, both with their own pros and cons) The least amount of times you have to touch a tie can be a huge savings in time, labor, and headache. Especially if your outfit doesn't have much mechanization and the track crew is only getting older. Don't forget you have to dispose of that now used up tie, and most of the time relays pulled out after the second time in the track are only good for proper disposal, can't sell them to the landscapers.

But I digress, back to the original posters questions. I think it doesn't matter so much which way you flip it, (facing down wicks water, facing up collects rain) the key is plugging the holes the best you can, and only relaying decent ties. We used to flip them if they were plate cut, and leave them upright when ok, just sliding them over some. It probably only comes down to personal preference of the foreman on the job.

I was thinking before you flip it have some preserving material as mentioned and flash the tie with it before turning it. I don't know if creosote is used anymore or todays approved material. Perhaps some preservative that immediately soaks in.

In doing tie work, any light use line you can have like every 4th tie or so solidly tied/spiked for operation while you might have intermediate "duds" barely holding, but me personally likes every tie set and spiked. But it just means more tie work needed.

Heavy equipment operation, ferget it, get all them ties done.

cheers

Creosote is still the tie preservative of choice. At one time I was certified to buy it in 5 gallon pails, and we'd slather it on with a paint brush if we had to cut or adze a tie. We'd thin it 50/50 with diesel fuel for better penetration.

Those days are long gone, and I'm not aware of anywhere that will sell you liquid creosote these days, not even for commercial uses.

Since mere mortals can't buy creosote, we resorted to roof & foundation coating as noted earlier. Easily purchased in five gallon buckets from your local big box home improvement store. The objective is to seal the surface of the relay grade tie so not only water but also oxygen can't get into the tie. Fungi and the decay they cause are greatly deterred by lack of oxygen. That's why ties which have been buried in dirt are often found to be in remarkably good shape when dug up. (But they also don't last long after being exposed to the air and being allowed to dry out.) Asphalt driveway sealer might penetrate further into the wood than the roof & foundation coating, but doesn't seal the surface anywhere near as well.

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.

Mix with some mineral spirits for "penetration". Works very well !

As others have already said, "heartwood side down" is the correct placement.

Consider the concentric pattern of the grain, looking from the end: with the heartwood side down, the shape of the grain will tend to shed water. On the other hand, a "flipped" tie will tend to hold water, with the grain pattern shaped like a "cup".

Most infiltration occurs through the ends, so drainage is critical to longevity and must be addressed as part of any tie replacement program.