> One of them that was sent, then given back
> as I gift I mentioned before. That was the
> "General Pershing" ; ex US-Army
> 2-8-0 #765 then 101. It is now at the
> National RR Museum, Green Bay, WI.

> We also sent over a lot of S-160s. However,
> they still had their left hand drive for
> British use, and were disliked by the Korean
> drivers. They did not last long.

James: If this is true, then the steam engines from the U.S. common carriers should have been preferred as they, obviously, had right hand drive. I do recall a thread on the PRR-FAX (Pennsylvania Railroad) discussion website about an in-service PRR B6 0-6-0 working a South Korean freight yard. The person who had witnessed it went back years later and there was, of course, no sign of the locomotive and no communications about it with the Korean railroaders at the yard due to the language difference. So I know that there was a Pennsy B6 there in addition to Erie 2524. I still ask; WHAT THE HECK ELSE??

> The impression I had was that the Erie
> Pacific was more of an oddball donation than
> mainstream. Most of what was sent I believe
> were ex-USATC machines that were declared
> surplus not by us but by the UN, and sent
> from Europe to the ROK. The UN was also what
> sent several S-160s and similiar locomotives
> by Vulcan Foundry to replace war loses in
> Poland and Eastern Europe. Please feel free
> to correct me if I am wrong about all of
> this.

James: Here I agree with you; the Erie Pacific WAS an oddball. My guess is that ALL of the other former U.S. common carrier locomotives were switchers (0-6-0's and/or 0-8-0's) or freight locomotives (2-8-0-s and/or 2-8-2's and/or ?) What I can't believe, with all of the books that have been written on railroads over the last 50 years or so, that NO ONE apparently has an idea as to what U.S. common carrier locomotives were sent to the ROK? And, apparently, that nobody cares! A rail historian somewhere should know, or at least be interested enough to want to find out! I realize that there would be a language problem but hey, it shouldn't be insurmountable. We DO sell Korean built cars in this country don't we?

> -James Hefner
> Hebrews 10:20a


midlandblb@cs.com

A LOT of other societies have penalties for vandalism that OUR legal system would never stand for...especially where minors are concerned.

Yes, they seem (by our standards) an overreaction,of sorts, but with HUNDREDS of years of history, not just decades at risk, you don't take chances...and there's reallly little arguement with the results.

steamnut@ptd.net

> A LOT of other societies have penalties for
> vandalism that OUR legal system would never
> stand for...especially where minors are
> concerned.

> Yes, they seem (by our standards) an
> overreaction,of sorts, but with HUNDREDS of
> years of history, not just decades at risk,
> you don't take chances...and there's reallly
> little arguement with the results.

I wonder, what are some of the penalties for vandalism?

Whatever they are, I wish we would implement them here!


http://www.todengine.org
jrowlands@neo.rr.com

> ... What I can't
> believe, with all of the books that have
> been written on railroads over the last 50
> years or so, that NO ONE apparently has an
> idea as to what U.S. common carrier
> locomotives were sent to the ROK? And,
> apparently, that nobody cares! A rail
> historian somewhere should know, or at least
> be interested enough to want to find out!

I set the Korean Steam Locomotive webpage up just for the purpose of drawing out what information was out there on surviving steam locomotives in Korea. As you can from the multiple credits at the bottom of the page, I have recieved quite a bit of feedback; much of it from overseas. Some are quotes from text on Korean steam locomotives.

At least two individuals have gone to Korea in search of surviving steam locomotives. A past issue of the Continental Railway Journal has reported on plinthed steam locomotives around the country; most of them "Mikasa" 2-8-2s. "Twilight of World Steam" also had a chapter on Korea, and I believe it mentioned the Erie Pacific as well.

So I don't think Korea has recieved any less attention than any other country. If anyone has records of what went over there, my point is that it is probably the United Nations Railroad Administration (UNNRA) and not the Korean government or the US Army. I have no idea where to begin looking; though perhaps you could take it on?

Once you find out, and even if the Erie Pacific was found, I hope it comes home faster than one of the VIW-built "Turkish Skyliners" that are currently stored awaiting scrap, or the pair of Dickson 0-4-2Ts photographed derelict by Colin Garratt on Rejo Agung sugar plantation on Java during the 1970s or 1980s that have since been scrapped; or the some the of ex-class one locomotives that went to Cuba, nearly all of which are scrapped or derelict.

One of the reasons I decided to develop "Surviving World Steam Locomotives" was to inform individuals and museums groups of the American steam locomotives remaining overseas, and cultivate an interest in saving them. Apparently, the Korean page alone has done just that, but there are others waiting to repatiated RIGHT NOW; they may not be there much longer.

I am first to admit that I can go out there and try and bring them back myself; but what I am doing now, along with cutting my teeth on rescuing some steam equipment in the immediate area, is all I can do for now. It's already nearly a second full-time job.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a


Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

No Message

Jim,

Without your website, Dave an I never would have dreamed up his Eirei hunt. Keep the good work (and word) rollin'!

Rob

> One of the reasons I decided to develop
> "Surviving World Steam
> Locomotives" was to inform individuals
> and museums groups of the American steam
> locomotives remaining overseas, and
> cultivate an interest in saving them.
> Apparently, the Korean page alone has done
> just that, but there are others waiting to
> repatiated RIGHT NOW; they may not be there
> much longer.

> I am first to admit that I can go out there
> and try and bring them back myself; but what
> I am doing now, along with cutting my teeth
> on rescuing some steam equipment in the
> immediate area, is all I can do for now.
> It's already nearly a second full-time job.

> -James Hefner
> Hebrews 10:20a


Ahead of the Torch
trains@robertjohndavis.com

Reply to James Hefner,

Just went over my B&W photos shot at Yong San RR yds. in Seoul during 1971 and I'll share with you the steam locomotives and their respective numbers that I saw in operation.
All KNR Mikasa 2-8-2's under steam and switching in the Yong Song yards: #59; #89; #277; #301 and #318.

I need to check out your Korean Steam locomotive web page to learn more.

Thanks for the clarification of the number plate information written in Korean.
Interesting to know that they had printed out in Korean, and then cast in the metal number plate (Both Front and side # plates): "Mika-3 59".
And so on with each engine #.

Ron Widman

==================================================

> I set the Korean Steam Locomotive webpage up
> just for the purpose of drawing out what
> information was out there on surviving steam
> locomotives in Korea. As you can from the
> multiple credits at the bottom of the page,
> I have recieved quite a bit of feedback;
> much of it from overseas. Some are quotes
> from text on Korean steam locomotives.

> At least two individuals have gone to Korea
> in search of surviving steam locomotives. A
> past issue of the Continental Railway
> Journal has reported on plinthed steam
> locomotives around the country; most of them
> "Mikasa" 2-8-2s. "Twilight of
> World Steam" also had a chapter on
> Korea, and I believe it mentioned the Erie
> Pacific as well.

> So I don't think Korea has recieved any less
> attention than any other country. If anyone
> has records of what went over there, my
> point is that it is probably the United
> Nations Railroad Administration (UNNRA) and
> not the Korean government or the US Army. I
> have no idea where to begin looking; though
> perhaps you could take it on?

> Once you find out, and even if the Erie
> Pacific was found, I hope it comes home
> faster than one of the VIW-built
> "Turkish Skyliners" that are
> currently stored awaiting scrap, or the pair
> of Dickson 0-4-2Ts photographed derelict by
> Colin Garratt on Rejo Agung sugar plantation
> on Java during the 1970s or 1980s that have
> since been scrapped; or the some the of
> ex-class one locomotives that went to Cuba,
> nearly all of which are scrapped or
> derelict.

> One of the reasons I decided to develop
> "Surviving World Steam
> Locomotives" was to inform individuals
> and museums groups of the American steam
> locomotives remaining overseas, and
> cultivate an interest in saving them.
> Apparently, the Korean page alone has done
> just that, but there are others waiting to
> repatiated RIGHT NOW; they may not be there
> much longer.

> I am first to admit that I can go out there
> and try and bring them back myself; but what
> I am doing now, along with cutting my teeth
> on rescuing some steam equipment in the
> immediate area, is all I can do for now.
> It's already nearly a second full-time job.

> -James Hefner
> Hebrews 10:20a


Crestline Roundhouse Preservation Society

Quote from my own research from years ago, encapsulated in the Korean Steam Page:

*** Yankees in Korea: ***

"In addition to the steam locomotives prior to the war, eight steam locomotives were ordered by the USA from Japan to replace steam locomotives lost during the Korean War. (These eight are marked with **.) An additional 53 standard-gauge diesel locomotives were brought from the USA in 1951-54, along with a score of C&O switchers and a Erie Pacific steam locomotive."

I think this quote was taken from Ron Ziel's "Twightlight of World Steam".

*** End of Steam in Korea ***

"Bar 2 2-6-2Ts, one of which was the Yongsan yard shunter until 1981, the working locos in 1979 were all Mika 3s. At least two (one of them being 161, I think) remained in service until the spring of 1982, when they were finally withdrawn . (That is correct; they were 161 and 177; see Eiji Nozawa's Page. jdh) But as the Mika-3s were withdrawn, policy was to plinth them in children's amusement parks or other sites around the country....I suspect anyone with the time and inclination to traipse around the children's parks of most of the larger Korean cities would unearth several more."

This quote is from Michael Reilly, who lived in South Korea from 1979-1984.

Ron Widman, Michael was there about 8 years later; so the Mika 3s he refers to may be some of the same ones you saw running. I don't show any of these in preservation; but as Michael says, there may be several others scattered in children's amusement parks or other sites around the country.

*** Another clue ***

Those who have visited my page have noticed that I have linked extensively with Don Ross' website. Don in turn has made extensive use of my material; both of us have had quite a bit of material added from visitors.

I in particular wanted to direct your attention to the following page on Don's website:

http://donross.railspot.com/dr065.htm

Scroll down to the section from Jim Gunning. He was a helicopter pilot in Korea from August '86 to August '87. While flying over the the KNR workshops, a steam locomotive under steam caught his attention. He then visited on foot later.

He reported seeing:

"Sitting outside was a 4-6-2, looking very rough (I'll pass the number when I find the photo). Inside, cold, but looking very well maintained were Mika-3 Nos. 161 and 129."

Later on in his comments, he states:

"As to other steam in Korea, I did see a few plinthed locomotives. I recall there was a 4-6-2 in Taegu and I did run across a few others."

Are either of these the Erie Pacific? I don't know, but it is another report of at least one or two Pacific steam locomotives being seen in Korea two years after the sighting at Freedom Bridge.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

North and South Korea Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

Ron,

Thanks. Some of the locomotives you mentioned have not been reported so late in the closing of steam in Korea.

Please, take a look at my Korean Steam page when you get a chance. You will see more information on the various classes of Korean steam locomotives, include the Maka-3 class.

Clicking on a class will take you to Don Ross' website, where you will see photographs taken by Don during the war, and sent by others as well.

-Thanks again;
James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

> Reply to James Hefner,

> Just went over my B&W photos shot at
> Yong San RR yds. in Seoul during 1971 and
> I'll share with you the steam locomotives
> and their respective numbers that I saw in
> operation.
> All KNR Mikasa 2-8-2's under steam and
> switching in the Yong Song yards: #59; #89;
> #277; #301 and #318.

> I need to check out your Korean Steam
> locomotive web page to learn more.

> Thanks for the clarification of the number
> plate information written in Korean.
> Interesting to know that they had printed
> out in Korean, and then cast in the metal
> number plate (Both Front and side # plates):
> "Mika-3 59".
> And so on with each engine #.

> Ron Widman

>
> ==================================================


North and South Korea Steam Locomotives
james1@pernet.net

The MiKa-5 class were evidently ordered by the US Army from Japan in the 1950's.

When MiKa-5 36 (I think) was going into the shop looking pretty derelict in 1969 it was lettered US Army Transportation Corps. When it came out ready for service, it was lettered KNR.

Strangely, some new MiKa-5's were offered for sale in a full-page blurb in Trains Mag in the 1960's. The blurb didn't mention the buyer or intended use but that the builder was left with them. As soon as I saw a MiKa-5, I recognised the engine from the sale offer.

Don Ross has some pix of the MiKa-5 as USATC 9400's: http://donross.railspot.com/dr109.htm

Electric City Trolley Museum Association