So, either Norfolk & Western #518391 or N&W #518398. Thanks for the info PMC.

Les

No, our mystery car is C&O, and the other is N&W. Notice the differences in cupola design (longer and straighter sides on the N&W car, sloping sides and shorter on the C&O one), cupola location (centered on the C&O, off center on the N&W), roof design, rivet patterns, length (the N&W car looks longer, would have to check a diagram to confirm), and the awnings, which were a part of the car structure on the C&O design (which dates back to the late 1930s, by the way).





It is funny how the paint has faded to close to the same shade on both cars!

Now if only we could find a number on it somewhere!

J3a-614 you're right, the sunshade is also wrong, it isn't the same caboose that was removed from Lincoln, and is still in the area apparently.

J3a-614: Well, I agree that the caboose in Bloomington, Illinois looks to be a C&O or PM caboose, BUT, your photo example for the N&W caboose is a 530xxx series which is actually an ex-Virginian caboose, not quite the same as the N&W 518xxx series hacks. The steps on the Bloomington caboose also indicate C&O.

Les

I have a closeup I took of the stamp on the steps. Hopefully this will help a little.

Thomas

Filling in some additional puzzle pieces for reference related to the mystery caboose,
I walked over to the local museum that displays C&O caboose 900124.

http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index ... es_fa.html

The step on this particular caboose is also identified with a C&O casting part number
but the caboose trucks are marked Pere Marquette with a date of 4-41.
(I've often suspected this caboose is not as old as the stated 1941 build date in the above article, but this
hunch doesn't relate to the discussion at hand.)

The brake wheel(s) on 900124 do not match that of the mystery caboose configuration nor is the end window placement the same.

American Car and Foundry appears to have built the mystery caboose style for other roads besides C&O / PM as clearly denoted on
page 276 of the 1949-1950 Car Builders’ Cyclopedia.

But tangling things a little further, the caboose in the car builders’ photo is stenciled with a date built of 1947.
The cyclopedia photo shows the same brake-wheel arrangement as the mystery caboose but the end window placement does not match.

Interesting mystery with clashing construction details ; )

John

I don't know about the car's design origins, though it may have originated in the Advisory Mechanical Committee (a design bureau shared by C&O, PM, W&LE, and NKP when those roads were under control of the Van Sweringen brothers).

On the C&O, the design first appeared in 1937, series number 90000-90049, built by Magor and notable for having Duryea cushioned underframes. These were the first steel cabooses on that road, which would buy 300 more in various orders through 1949.

The PM also bought the design, and had a notable variation in that the ladders were on the brake wheel side when delivered.

(Model images from Kohl's)

C&O:



PM:



I don't have a lot of C&O caboose data available, but the staff brake on the mystery car would probably place it in a 1937-1941 group, possibly later. Other variations had the power brake, as shown in the model versions.

Of course, cars got rebuilt in various ways. Some undoubtedly got power brakes in shopping, at least some of the PM cars had their ladders relocated to the more typical position of their C&O cousins and the cars built for C&EI and MP.

And somewhere I've seen a photo of one of the 1937 cars--perhaps No. 90000--with what must have been experimental Differential Car Company trucks. From the sides those trucks looked like a pressed steel type, like Fox trucks, but from the end, you saw double frames and stub axles--in other words, the wheels could turn independently from each side, and maintaining gauge was entirely up to the truck frames! This car was in a wreck early on, though supposedly there was no information available as to whether the trucks were to blame for the derailment.

I couldn't find a photograph of this car and its trucks online, but I did find a page on Differential Steel Car Company mine locomotives, which also featured such "axleless" trucks. There is a model image at the bottom of the page that comes close to what was under that C&O car, illustrating the principle of the design.

http://americanindustrialmining.com/dif ... ocomotives

Thomas - Since you seem to be the closest, can you get a closeup pic of the ACI tag to lay this to rest?

Will do. The soonest I can get over there is Wednesday afternoon. I will send a picture of the tag as soon as I can.

Thomas

The thing that throws me is that the end window appears to be on the wrong side of the door, as compared to every other C&O caboose of this type I've seen. Otherwise, it is a dead-ringer for a caboose in the C&O 90100-90149 series (St. Louis Car, 1941) or 90150-90199 (ACF, 1947).

The key identifying features that pin it to these series are the horizontal brake wheel and the steel window awnings.

The PM-stamped trucks are not unusual on a C&O caboose, as a lot of C&O cabooses were overhauled at the former PM Wyoming Yard shops (Grand Rapids, Mich.), and trucks were freely mixed over the years.

I just paid a visit to the caboose and snapped a closeup of the ACI tag.

Thomas

Tag says C&O 90002.

I don't have roster information that might include renumberings, but if that's right, it could be one of the cars from the initial order of 1937.

That would make it a bit of an oldie!

Couldn't find a photo on the internet of C&O 90002, but here's one of what could be a sister car from the same 90xxx series:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/co/co90080dsa.jpg

Looks pretty much the same as the caboose in Bloomington.


Les

No. 90080 would likely be from a second series, the first run was 90000 to 900049--still an oldie (and how I wish I had picked up a copy of that C&OHS book on C&O steel cabooses!)

And for fun, look what's directly in front of it--an ART refrigerator car, one that looks like it might be a sister to the one that was in Texas in the company of a B&O wagontop car for a while, but is gone now.

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