I was surprised when CSX let 765 ferry over its tracks two years ago (and last year too). It's a small thing but that's fine, it's appreciated.

One only has to witness the "Transcon" anywhere between Kingman and Flagstaff to see why BNSF wouldn't want to run steam through there. It's the busiest line I've ever seen the US (I've seen running meets where two trains are pacing one another, meeting a third from the opposite direction). In some spots, you can look down at the expanse of the open areas and see multiple trains lined up, almost one per block, all moving.
That said, 3751 has gone through there on trips in the past to run up the old AT&SF Grand Canyon branch (with Amtrak power, no less):

There are three reasons Class 1 railroads do not want steam locomotives or excursions on their property now and in the future.

1. Liability: Because these special movements attract folks trackside there is an increased liability of having them on the property because the the general public (not riders) no nothing about being safe around the tracks and lawyers cringe when they see people on the right of way.

2. Expense: the cost of handling these moves and delaying other traffic along with having extra officers on duty to "hand hold" them is very costly. The value of public relations is very small and not worth the effort. In addition some organizations do not know how to professionally behave when on Class 1 properties and give the entire industry a bad name.

3. Operations: Putting one of these movements out on the mainline just fouls up operations and with almost all big carriers now instituting PSR operations with extremely long, heavy freights they don't want the public anywhere near their tracks. Employees are working more hours than in the past and to them railroading is just a job with high pay and benefits but little satisfcation. Railroading is not a happy business any more.

I speak from experience after retiring from 50 years as a railroader and having been in charge of several steam excursions on a very popular regional railroad. After a few years of these movements all of the departments, engineering, mechanical and operations pleaded with the president to ban operation of the specials and he reluctantly, agreed. We were literally, worn out having to accomodate them.

Now days due to high insurance costs even regionals and short lines can't afford to have steam/excursions on their property. The future of these movements are at museums using their own track, locomotives and with personnel trained to understand the public and avoid liability issues.

Operating steam locomotives and passenger excursions on large railroads, outside of possibly, BNSF and UP are generally a thing of the past and is doubtful to be repeated. Sad news for those who enjoy large steam but honest.

exprail

Yeah dude seriously.....

http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req= ... ion:prelim)

49 USC 24308: Use of facilities and providing services to Amtrak
Text contains those laws in effect on February 19, 2019

(2) Problems caused by host rail carrier.-If the Board determines that delays or failures to achieve minimum standards investigated under paragraph (1) are attributable to a rail carrier's failure to provide preference to Amtrak over freight transportation as required under subsection (c), the Board may award damages against the host rail carrier, including prescribing such other relief to Amtrak as it determines to be reasonable and appropriate pursuant to paragraph (3) of this subsection.

(3) Damages and relief.-In awarding damages and prescribing other relief under this subsection the Board shall consider such factors as-

(A) the extent to which Amtrak suffers financial loss as a result of host rail carrier delays or failure to achieve minimum standards; and

(B) what reasonable measures would adequately deter future actions which may reasonably be expected to be likely to result in delays to Amtrak on the route involved.


(4) Use of damages.-The Board shall, as it deems appropriate, order the host rail carrier to remit the damages awarded under this subsection to Amtrak or to an entity for which Amtrak operates intercity passenger rail service. Such damages shall be used for capital or operating expenditures on the routes over which delays or failures to achieve minimum standards were the result of a rail carrier's failure to provide preference to Amtrak over freight transportation as determined in accordance with paragraph (2).

That's got nothing to do with if one Amtrak train was allegedly delayed by a steam excursion.

Those are rarely enacted rules that allow Amtrak to contest a history of systemic delays by a Class 1 carrier that's routinely giving preference to their own trains to such a degree that delays have become routine and severe.

Alex #4 is spot on regarding the track running through Flagstaff. Stay in Flagstaff for an hour and see, perhaps five stack trains at 70mph. There was a huge infrastructure investment in that area in the past decade.
I do think the cultivating a positive attitude with BNSF will yield solid results, but the RR is a modern, efficient, money making, freight hauler. I should add, I think BNSF is quite mindful of its historic and heritage roots.

What LeoA said. The new code is to help address systematic abuse of Amtrak by freight carriers by correcting deficiencies in the previous Amtrak reauthorization(s). It is not meant for occasional delays or breakdowns beyond the normal scope of operation.

If 'someplace' has instituted a policy of 'clearing the railroad' for Amtrak or any routine special train (beyond highly sensitive things that do, in fact, require additional security), they have more serious problems, including qualified field managers and dispatchers, adequate day-to-day capacity, and truly capable senior management. And I'm not going to go into the whole insurance/liability thing.

Re: BNSF and steam. Last year the Milw 261 did an excursion up in North Dakota. How did the locomotive and its train get there? Over BNSF and without a diesel along for the ride! BUT the conditions were that the train crew was limited to only those required to operate and service the locomotive. The rest of the 50 or so volunteers that staffed the excursion had to get to North Dakota however they could. Reasonable? I don't know, but it worked. I suspect that the big issue was insurance for the non-railroader volunteers.
But whatever the reasons, the 261 made a round trip of some 500 hundred miles, without a diesel back up. BNSF knows these folks and trusts them to operate safely and reliably. Anything is possible.

Robert J - NKP 765 has a very interesting heritage. The NKP itself did indeed land in the N&W camp in the 1964 merger with WAB. However, at the time the 765 was built in 1944, NKP was part of the Advisory Mechanical Committee, a joint effort of the Van Swerigen railroads including C&O, PM and NKP. The C&O T-1 2-10-4's were close cousins of the NKP 700's, with one additional driver. Rear 3/4 photos of the T-1's are striking- you have to look closely to determine whether it is a NKP Berkshire. The C&O K-4 class were virtual twins, except for steam and sand domes and details. Even the H-8 2-6-6-6 class shares many AMC drawings with the NKP S-class. These railroads were all based at the Van Swerigen HQ in Terminal Tower, Cleveland for over a decade. The ownership of these railroads changed after World War II, separating from the AMC camp, and the NKP went independent until the 1964 merger.

So the 765 can legitimately lay claim to heritage in BOTH the NS and CSX systems!

NKP779 - Appreciate your reply and I am aware of the AMC where NKP, C&O and PM all had Berkshires that were constructed from a common blueprint with minor variations.

This reminded me that C&O 2716 also spent a season as Southern 2716 but this was prior to the merger that formed Norfolk Southern. Yes, this is the same 2716 the Kentucky Steam Heritage Corporation is now planning to restore. So 2716 does have past history with both CSXT (C&O) and NS (SOU) like NKP 765 does.

Before we get swept away in foam and high hopes, perhaps a little review of facts might be in order.

There is a total of one class 1 railroad with an actual steam program, and that is UP. Not one of the other roads has one. Not one of the other roads has expressed any recent interest in starting one. That said, UP's own program has shriveled operationally to a mere shadow of it's former self.

BNSF has never had a steam program. It has in the past allowed certain other proven,
experienced steam operators to run over it's lines, usually under Amtrak aegis, which, as well all know, is no longer applicable due to changes policy at Amtrak.

CP had a steam program, but ended it with the advent of PSR. NS had one twice, and both times ended it.

That said, the highly-placed BNSF executive who "rode herd" on such things retired a few years ago. BNSF might or might not still be willing to let certain operators on it's property; only time will tell. Lets do a quick roll call:

3751 is down for the 1,472 inspection. AFAIK, no timetable has been announced for it's return to service. SP&S 700 is also undergoing a 1,472 inspection. SLSF 1522 has been out of service for about 15+ years now and the group itself has disbanded. MILW 261 and SP 4449 are available, but have in the past been reliant on Amtrak for car moves, cars, and insurance. In it's last couple of years of service, 3751 ran only under CalTrain/Amtrak, not BNSF.

As for 2926, it's anyone's guess what their future is, no matter what "plans" they may be dreaming of.

Then there is the specter of PTC. As of this moment, not one steam locomotive is equipped with PTC. A group of responsible big-steam operators is working with FRA to come up with a solution, but they are not there yet. Others seem to be whistling in the dark, including UP, which has not equipped any of it's historic locomotives with PTC. It has requested a waiver from FRA, but AFAIK said request hasn't been granted yet.

You want to take your big engine out on a PTC-equipped line? You are out of luck at present unless you are willing to be hauled behind a PTC-equipped diesel, though that could all change.

Lincoln Penn summarizes it well. Until/unless another Wick Moorman comes along to occupy the CEO's chair at one of the Class 1's it is extremely unlikely that we'll ever again see a company sponsored and financed system wide steam program.

The realities are that today's railroad senior leaders are too young to have known steam personally and nearly all of their senior operating people are in the same boat. This leads to a visceral knee jerk reaction of the very universal human fear of the unknown.

If that weren't enough of an tough challenge add in that with the sole exception of BNSF all the other 6 class 1's are beholden to their hedge fund shareholders who demand ever and ever greater earnings per share no matter how you get there. This is what birthed the whole Hunter Harrison so called PSR movement and they're all now trapped into that dead end street.

A key piece of the whole PSR nonsense is to fire every single employee you can and operate with a skeleton crew and thus further over work your already way over worked line operating officers.

If those issues were not enough then add that the class 1's senior leadership ranks are heavy with attorneys & bean counters. The lawyers are paid to keep the company out of trouble and the very thought of an "attractive nuisance" like a big mainline LIVE steam engine on their property attracting hoards of folks to trackside is a HUGE non-starter regardless of insurance, and the bean counters will show how this darn steam train will delay other high revenue movements and put a measureable dent in their PSR efforts.

The sole realistic hope for mainline steam to make any showing ( outside the UP RR) is for there to be A. a complete change of attitude on the part of Amtrak so that they're willing to be a pro-active proponent of special steam excursions run under their charter and insurance ...or 2. a steam powered celebration train of sufficient national importance to have enough political & corporate backing to make it impossible for the class 1's to say no. Other than those 2 possibilities IMHO there is no future for mainline steam.

As most of you know I'm working on AFT 2.0 ( formerly known as the Yellow Ribbon Express) attempting to secure the $ 100M in co-sponsorships needed to finance it and if we are successful hopefully it will garner the support of the class 1's needed to fullfil its important mission.

My 2 cents worth.

Ross Rowland

Mr. Rowland's comments above remind me that the whole country is coming down with Wal Mart disease, including our rail system.

Wal Mart disease is when you go to the Wal Mart, and the store has 30 cash registers--but only two are open, and there are 50 people in line at each one.

Yeah, that sounds like railroading, too.

Speaking of which, good luck with that Mr. Rowland! Hopefully the class-1's won't poo-poo on your idea!

You may also have to buy a controlling interest in the stock of the target Class 1 road, or in the bank that owns such an interest, so that you can influence its practices. Kansas City Southern or Florida East Coast may be easier to swallow.
I own some Kansas City Southern stock, but not any Florida East Coast.