Looks like a trailing truck under the second one. Ugly without a shroud, too...... much like some politicians.

Second one is a Milwaukee Road Hiawatha 4-4-2 before the streamlining was applied.

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Kelly -

I can understand why the Dayton-Goose Creek Railroad purchased a 4-4-0 with just 13,770 lbs of tractive effort, IF the locomotive could do the job! I mentioned Frisco 4-4-0's earlier in this thread. In 1928, SLSF took two early 1900's built American's and rebuilt them as oil burners with superheaters, feedwater heaters and front-end throttles. They replaced 4-6-0's in light passenger service, doing the work with great regularity and showing a marked economy in fuel consumption. The railroad was so pleased, that they rebuilt four additional 4-4-0's in 1929. These engines remained in service at least into the late 1940's and right up until the start of dieselization of the railroad. This info from Lloyd E. Stagner's book, "Steam Locomotives of the Frisco Line".

Les

that's interesting with the Frisco 4-4-0s. Odd they didn't choose to rebuild and modernize 4-6-0s.
I've not seen a photo of a Frisco 4-4-0 with a FWH though.

The Dayton-Goose Creek ran on the Texas Gulf Coast east of Houston. It's about as flat as flat gets down there.

Ya gotta love a modern superheated, piston valve 4-4-0 with a Vandy Tank!!!

Even later in the 1920s, Missouri Pacific RR officers were wondering why their subsidiary, the Houston North Shore RR, which also ran to Goose Creek, was electrifying as an interurban trolley line. It even acquired some cars from other MP owned electric interurban lines that had been abandoned just before that time.

That Dayton-Goose Creek locomotive is what I would call "handsome."

It is a shame that a Texas museum can't get the SA&AP engine back to Texas.

The Gulf & Ohio System's "Three Rivers Rambler" seems to be making decent progress in its efforts to restore SA&AP # 60 (Texas & New Orleans #220) back to active service.

Les

I'm pretty sure if you look a little further you will find pictures of Lackawanna 4-4-0s with dramatic streamlining 'wings'. (Otto Kuhler got himself in trouble one day when one of the Lackawanna guys proudly showed off one of the engines with those wings, and Kuhler started peering up under the running boards -- when asked why, he said 'to see what made them flap...' Of course, for the 'ultimate' 4-4-0 you might have to go back almost to the origin of the wheel arrangement, and look at Calthrop's patent 49,227 ( designed as I recall from his experience at Harvard with racing shells)... there is now a video about it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry54IG972LI

Blount saved one of the technically ultimate 4-4-0s, 'Repton' of the Schools class, at Steamtown, one of his most significant 'saves'. It was later repatriated to an enthusiast group.

If I remember correctly, didn't Beebe note in one of his books that the 'last' new-built 4-4-0 was built circa 1928 and in service in the Southeast?

Quick question, and apologies for the thread wander...

When did lead trucks become standardly non-rigid in locomotive design? Presumably when wheelbases became too long to properly navigate curvature... but, for example, does an Atlantic (perhaps like 7002) have a rigid lead truck?

I'm fairly sure that a ten-wheeler (G5, for example) has a flexible lead truck (albeit that's a comparatively modern 4-6-0 design.)

Just curious if anyone has any insight or opinion.

Thanks,
Joe

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Thanks very much, Kelly! Very interesting topic and "... "Cheaper to build", that explains PRR's still using it." Ha!! ;) Standard Railroad of the World, right? :)

Thanks for the pictures.

Yeah, I'd be interested to hear if 98 has one has well. Maybe Alco (?) was up to better standards at the time of her build.

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LOL! ;)