Has a new contractor been selected to finish the repairs?

Mike Stillwell
Buena Vista, VA

Well, I hate to see anybody working in our industry get caught up in a situation that could turn into the loss of a business that supports our interests. There's a lot of good education that benefits us all coming out of this - but what could be lost is the R&D and interesting work John and company have done over the past many years. Best wishes to everybody involved in this situation - and hoping for the least damaging resolution possible.

I'm a bit shocked about the Chinese stay bolts, an item you don't want to scrimp on. This rebuild took place over a long period, did the rules regarding verification change during that time? It is such an elementary mistake.

"Was it binding arbitration? If not, it'll keep going and isn't done yet."

"Binding and the result has the force of law as a legal judgment."


The wording on the Confirming Award clearly says it is an "Appealable Judgment". Am I missing something here?

From what I understand the loosing party could file an appeal with the court of appeals. Apple also courts need a final order and the working just alerts the parties that the clock is ticking.

Appeals courts, my lawyer neighbor tells me, only look at legal
Errors and not fact errors. She tells me that there likely wouldn’t be a successful appeal in a case like this.

I love seeing the “bad apples” get caught and put out work. It’s best for any industry imho.

For someone like me who knows practically nothing about the American steam and preservation industry, what is Wasatch's reputation? And what other notable projects have they worked on?

You can PM me if you don't want your name and opinion to be public.

This apple wasn't bad - lots of successful (and occasionally somewhat interestingly controversial) adaptations of documented international practices openly discussed although not always in enough detail to replicate and experiment with, but certainly among the leaders in the industry. Involved in the engineering standards work as well. Innovative in marketing and promotion also...... and I'd put his qualifications and portfolio up against yours any day, or mine too for that matter - my specialty was finding possible ways to do as much as possible in the absence of resources to get something started that - a few years later - Steam Operations Corp could be afforded to be brought in to upgrade. Not sure what you've accomplished for the past 25 or 30 years in preservation, not sure you are old enough to have put in a couple decades of full time professional effort in the industry yet.

I am aware of some apples that need to be weeded out but this isn't one of them. I'm also a bit taken aback about the low-bar level of the difficulties being discussed about this particular project, would have expected a much technically higher level of disagreement than explicitly forbidden foreign suppliers products being provided. Of course we only now what has been posted here on which to base judgements.

I wasn’t aware I needed a portfolio to have an opinion. In that case very little as my experience is in operations (conductor, selling tickets, tour guide) and not in restoration work even though I was around it on a daily basis.

Love how you jumped to age, as if I’m not some old man my opinion doesn’t count. Typical of this industry.

Wasatch actually got lucky on this one. Work was started around April, 2012 and was supposed to be completed by July, 2013. They were working on it in 2017 and it was still not finished. They museum probably could have claimed loss of revenue damages from not having the operational steam locomotive. As anyone who has been watching the drama of the C&O #1309 which is years behind schedule, the museum has lost hundreds of thousands of dollars from that locomotive not running.

Further they were not fined by the FRA (which was probably appropriate in this case), and they were not penalized by the Government for violating the Buy America stipulation, which probably borders on fraud. There is that old saying "the cheap gets expensive". Woe to the people that have to re-work someone else's screw up. That is the worst.

My cat has opinions, mostly about when it's dinner time. Yours without experience and knowledge only able to be gained through long and deep activity and exposure to a wide range of situations is an opinion, and you are entitled to have it, but must also understand that it's nowhere near as valid from an objective perspective as one from somebody who has the lived context you haven't got yet. Please keep working in the field, but with less reactionary judgement and in 20 years or so you may be an industry leader as well.

Dear Dave

I want to thank people like you who have this attitude for driving people out of our organizations, The damage caused by the hero worship of some in our industry is very damaging. It limits recruitment to people you can control and manipulate so the manipulator is always at the top of the pile.

This arrogant and ignorant attitude that drives people from our industry is causing our demise. This worship of people because they work on a steam locomotive, does great damage. And worse yet others cover for them without considering the damage being done by the stupidity of the actions involved. In the end we do not grow because we do not address our limitations and issues. Egos are more important than integrity. Because of this attitude there is a lack of growth we will die. So today I say thank you for putting to nails into the steam locomotives coffin.

Robby Peartree

I'm trying to stay out of this, but............

There really isn't a "polite" or "appropriate" way to discuss the absolutely valid point that a "diploma from the School of Hard Knocks" is just as valuable, and in many ways much more so, than "textbook" learning, without potentially offending young people.

It's a common fact that, in just about any field out there, the young, bright-eyed, and inexperienced, if they stay in whatever field long enough, will eventually turn into hardened, cynical, gruff curmudgeons. And what does that is years or decades of "the real world"--failures, disappointments, illuminating experiences, and "non-textbook" successes. Have we never seen how any of various massive projects, from C&O 1309 to Britain's and California's High Speed Rail projects to military hardware, virtually all end up behind schedule and costing more than twice the original budget? And then the "newbies" wonder why we "nattering nabobs of negativity" always tell them "Take your estimates for the project--now double it. Now double THAT figure, and you might have enough for a pizza at the end!"????

I have no idea whether the subject of this case is the result of incompetence, malfeasance, ignorance, or "there's nothing in the contract that says I had to buy staybolts that aren't made in the USA IN the USA...."

But the fact that I could lose a sum that could be the net worth of my business and then some over what could have been an innocent mistake would scare anyone with common sense away from ever even trying to accomplish anything in this field. And if this is the cr*p that happens even among "professionals" in this field, I'd hate to think what would happen to the "backyard shade tree amateurs" that formerly revived, and kept running, legions of steamers and cars nationwide fifty years ago--and hope to do so all over again.

So now that the legal stuff and associated stone throwing is out of the way, can someone affiliated with the K&T 14 comment on where things go from here with respect to resuming restoration?

(I’m new at Internet forum banter, so forgive me if I failed to offend anyone, I’ll try harder next time.)

Good afternoon folks,

So I have watched this topic being discussed here ad nauseum. I have privately heard from a number of people whose opinions I value greatly and who have far greater knowledge of the players involved than I do. My comments are not intended to defend, nor castigate anyone involved. They simply reflect a point that everyone should take into account before they let their passion drive this thread towards unproductive territory.

Clearly one of the parties involved was hit with nearly a million dollar legal judgement. The obvious question that needs to be asked is simple; Is the prevailing party likely to ever recover their damages?.

The answer to the question will either be yes or no. Based on all the information shared to date, one might be inclined to jump to a conclusion. However, since the current financial health of the company who has been ordered to pay damages is not publicly known at this time, it would be irresponsible for too much public speculation in the absence of additional information.

Based on experience, I would suspect that a bankruptcy filing (either voluntary or involuntary) is a likely outcome to flow from this judgement. However, if Wasatch has sufficient cash on hand, they may be able to pay the judgement out of pocket. I don't give the latter outcome high odds, but it might be possible.

What I'm more curious to know is if Wasatch has sufficient assets that could be liquidated in order to satisfy the judgement. If they do, then the "teaching moment" in this thread might be in how a party pursues collecting its judgement. On this point, I'm curious to see how this plays out. As a contractor specializing in steam and railroad restorations, Wasatch could likely have sufficient assets that could be liquidated to pay the judgement.

I suspect this drama will go one for some time. I can foresee a few more twist and turns before we reach a final resolution of the dispute. I would suggest that we focus on seeing if the judgement can be satisfied in full. If not, then this thread needs to evolve into a larger discussion regarding appropriate (financial) risk management.

And with that, I'll draw this missive to a close.