Kelly,

I don't have my records handy but back around 2006 or so I personally donated the Conrail X60 and a former PRR H43 "Yellow Ball" 100 ton hopper to the museum and arranged for their transportation from South Philadelphia to Leaman Place.

The back story is these cars were part of the Academy of Industrial Training which was a
technical school pre-merger Conrail had for our Car Inspection & Repair and Locomotive craft employees. After the school shut down the cars were allocated to CSXT. I arranged to purchase them through CSX Asset Disposition.

Both cars were in extraordinary condition, the H43 was the most interesting find on account it was not modified in the 1994 program that applied patches to the side sheets.

EBL

For those of you in the Commonwealth - is there any thought that the H43 or X60 might be considered for scrapping?

In 2013 RRMPA scrapped, without notice, the Budd Pioneer III set (PRR 246-247) that was at RRMPA since the mid-1990s. As best as I can determine (and I will be happily corrected) the Pioneer III cars were the last new passenger or MU cars that the PRR ordered without public financing. While the Silverliner IIs and the Metroliners carried PRR lettering, they were owned or financed by public entities.

That irritated the hell out of me - not only the fact that they agreed to take them, go through the effort and cost to move them, and then simply scrap them. I remember seeing them - they were mostly shells, if I recall, but they certainly gave visitors a personal view of what they represented.

Rumor has it... or I had once heard (now its a rumor again, lol) that they got rid of them with the expectations (promise?) of a different set of "Silverliners" in much better condition. Which Silverliners or their significance is not known to me - if the rumor is even true. I had seen pics of one variety ending up in Virginia?? Some entity wanted to make sure a set of them was preserved.

Which variety of Silverliner was the one that - per the plaque at Princeton Junction:
APRIL 2, 1967: FOUR UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
HIGH-SPEED TEST CARS, FORERUNNERS OF THE NORTHEAST CORRIDOR METROLINERS,
REACHED THE SPEED OF 155.2 MPH.

(155.2 mph in 1967 - yeah, I'd say a set was worth preserving..., too late to preserve one of the UA Turbotrains - that, to THIS day still hold the national speed record for a production built set and reached 170.8 mph back in 1967 - a record yet to be matched or exceeded by even the new Acela Libertys)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW7mEoZ ... e=youtu.be

/Mitch

It was my understanding the two 1956 Pioneer III's were scrapped because RRMPA was to get a 1963 Budd Silverliner from SEPTA. There were 55 of these and were funded and owned by the City of Philadelphia (before SEPTA) and eventually passed on to SEPTA.

This has not happened yet.

Phil Mulligan

The four Silverliners at Princeton Jct. were four test cars built with Silverliner bodies and Pioneer III trucks for US DOT to serve as high speed test cars. They led to the Budd Metroliners that had heavier trucks and needed more powerful motors. Metroliner Snack-Coach No. 860 is at RRMPA. Other Metroliner cars continue in Amtrak service as unpowered cab cars.

The test cars never ran in passenger service for PRR, PC or Amtrak, but continued with US DOT as locomotive-hauled test cars.

Phil Mulligan

Folks,
I remember reading that a new Roundhouse came in way over budget. It was a stainless steel and glass monster; nothing like any roundhouse that I ever saw. I am glad it went away! I am sad that all those locomotives and cars are still outdoors. Maybe they should just build a replica of the Reading Roundhouse that was with their turntable.

Ted Miles, former member of Friends of RMP

If I remember correctly, this is a very different "Pioneer III" from the donated equipment in question, which was a lightweight transit car with lightweight truck construction. T1-4 may have been built with the general type of lightweight structure but would have been far heavier, probably with more substantial motors, than the trucks in the prototype transit cars. There was nothing else like them in the world, and although they themselves were probably as much of a dead end as the contemporary 'lightweight trains of the future' they deserved preservation. (So did the tubular-train consist, but heaven knows that was given enough chances for preservation!)

At least some of the original 9000-series 'Silverliners' (some of which famously went to crash testing, a bit like using Chrysler letter cars for that kind of purpose) had the outside disc brakes on inside-bearing trucks, but I think the construction was heavier.

The regular Metroliners were famously built with GSC-70 outside-bearing trucks that could supposedly take the punishment of "150mph operation" better. It is quite possible this was, ultimately, wise, particularly considering how the first two corridor improvement projects came out track-wise.

The 6 Budd Pioneer III MU cars built for PRR in 1958 had Pioneer III trucks and tread brakes.

The 55 Budd Silverliners built for the City of Philadelphia (PSIC) also had Pioneer III trucks but more powerful motors and outboard disc brakes. PRR soured on the disc brakes and converted their 38 cars to tread brakes but RDG retained the outboard disc brakes on their 17 cars, and no RDG Silverliner ran off the end of the railroad. SEPTA converted the RDG cars to tread brakes when the fleets were combined.

The 4 US DOT Test Cars had Budd Silverliner bodies, Pioneer III trucks and even more powerful motors than the 1963 Silverliners. PRR or DOT added streamlined nosepieces to these cars to reduce wind resistance, allowing 156 mph operation between Trenton and New Brunswick.

As to Pioneers, Pioneer I is a stainless steel airplane currently displayed at the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia. (the 1943 Budd RB-1 Conestoga was a twin engine US Navy transport aircraft made of stainless steel. It looked a lot like the later aluminum USAF C-123). Pioneer II is the Pioneer Zephyr.

Phil Mulligan

Isn't Pioneer I a Savoia-Marchetti seaplane?

You can probably clear up something else Pioneer related. Back in the '70s there were repeated references to "Pioneer IV" trucks. Current searches appear to indicate there was no such thing, although I remember, or seem to remember, seeing diagrams of them go by. Is there officially a higher "Pioneer" truck rating?

One thing to keep in mind: the purpose of traditional roundhouses was to provide a space for employees to store and service equipment.

The purpose of a museum's roundhouse shaped exhibit building is to provide an attractive space to entice members of the public to come learn about preserved artifacts.

The fact that the latter would be vaguely patterned after the former has more to do with the presence of the turntable and the ability to tie it to the museum's theme than the desire to recreate an actual working engine servicing facility.

As to Budd's Pioneer airplane, here's the Franklin Institute page:

https://www.fi.edu/budd-aircraft

I never heard of a Budd Pioneer IV truck. There weren't Pioneer I or II trucks either. The Pioneer III truck came with the cars.

The RRMPA roundhouse design I saw was a traditional brick structure.

The turntable was removed from West Cressona around 1934 and stored at Reading pending further use. The roundhouse it joined at Bridgeport in 1948 was wood. The turntable and roundhouse at Bridgeport were replaced by a new rectangular enginehouse at Abrams and a new wye at Norristown.

Phil Mulligan

Hi all....

About 15 years ago i saw one of the DOT cars (was either T-1 or T-4) at Fort Eustis in Virginia. Fort Eustis has a Army transportation museum there. It wasn't near the museum
itself but in another yard area about a half mile from the museum. (the museum is near the main gate. The yard i saw the car at was back towards the James river) I was doing some work for the shipyard i work for at the Mirad (US Maritime Administration) area at the river.
(Mirad used to have a huge fleet of stored Government owned ships in its "dead fleet" on the James river which has been greatly reduced over the years. You have to enter and go
thru Fort Eustis to get to the Mirad offices and pier. I have a picture i took somewhere of a old steel box car (looked like a USRA version of a PRR X-29) and the DOT car is in the background of the picture.

Fort Eustis is an Army Post and the US DOT cars were government-owned. What they may have been doing is taking advantage of free, secure parking within the gates of an Army Post versus paying storage charges to a railroad.

Phil Mulligan