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 Post subject: Re: New TSA mask requirements
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:31 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:55 pm
Posts: 20
Location: Kansas City, MO
In short Tom, yes.

We're going to have to take a little time this year with the yearly rules classes to discuss Transportation Security as well.

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Matthew Friel

The Smoky Hill Railway and Historical Society, Inc.
The Belton, Grandview and Kansas City Railroad Co.


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 Post subject: Re: New TSA mask requirements
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:02 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2610
I suspect this mandate among other things is intended to give operators clarity and leeway regarding when they can exclude individuals not wearing masks from their premises. It also will assist operators in states without mask mandates. I suspect we will see less and less non-compliance with mask mandates in the coming months, but when they do show up and insist "you can't enforce non-law" (as the person in Trader Joe's here in OR insisted in the viral video https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/stat ... 3813117955, actually he could on private property) an operator will have this guidance to refer to.


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 Post subject: Re: New TSA mask requirements
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:20 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:33 pm
Posts: 139
kcrailroader wrote:
In short Tom, yes.

We're going to have to take a little time this year with the yearly rules classes to discuss Transportation Security as well.


Out of curiosity, in the link that you shared above, where exactly does your railroad in Belton fall under within the Surface Transportation security training requirements?

Under the tab "How do I determine whether the Rule applies to my agency/company":

TSA’s applicability criteria for freight railroads, public transportation/passenger rail (PTPR), OTRB and certain business operations are as follows:
Freight Rail (49 CFR § 1580.101):

(a) Class I freight railroads (as described in §1580.1(a)(1))
(b) Each freight railroad carrier (as described in § 1580.1(a)(1)) that transports one or more categories of Rail Security Sensitive Material (RSSM) in an High Threat Urban Area (HTUA) as defined in the rule.
(c) Railroads (as described in § 1580.1(a)(4)) that serves as a host railroad to a freight railroad described in paragraph (a) of (b) of this section or a passenger operation described in § 1582.101 of the regulation.

Public Transportation and Passenger Railroads (PTPR) (49 CFR § 1582.101):

A public transportation agency (including rail mass transit and bus systems) or passenger railroad must provide security training if it is (a) one of the 46 identified PTPR systems listed in 49 CFR part 1582, Appendix A; (b) Amtrak; or (c) hosts a higher-risk freight railroad.


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 Post subject: Re: New TSA mask requirements
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:47 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:55 pm
Posts: 20
Location: Kansas City, MO
I am going to give the simple answer, if the FRA rules apply, so do the Homeland Security rules. This is the application of the old FRA jurisdictional letter that determined whether a RR was insular or not. We have 16 public grade crossings, so we clearly are not insular. Additionally, our interchange is with the KCS, at the North end of our property.

We've been registered since 2012 or 2013 with Homeland Security. We typically get an e-mail and maybe a call or two from our TSA security coordinator each year, typically "you still there?" and "anything going on?" This stuff is way different.

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Matthew Friel

The Smoky Hill Railway and Historical Society, Inc.
The Belton, Grandview and Kansas City Railroad Co.


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 Post subject: Re: New TSA mask requirements
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:53 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2610
kcrailroader wrote:


Note that this order says "TSA’s action will also support the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Emergency Order requiring that individuals wear masks on conveyances and at stations, ports, or similar transportation hubs." The CDC order
https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/masks/ma ... dance.html says:

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) issued an Order on January 29, 2021 requiring the wearing of masks by travelers to prevent spread of the virus that causes COVID-19. Conveyance operators must also require all persons onboard to wear masks when boarding, disembarking, and for the duration of travel. Operators of transportation hubs must require all persons to wear a mask when entering or on the premises of a transportation hub.

This Order must be followed by all passengers on public conveyances (e.g., airplanes, ships, ferries, trains, subways, buses, taxis, ride-shares) traveling into, within, or out of the United States as well as conveyance operators (e.g., crew, drivers, conductors, and other workers involved in the operation of conveyances) and operators of transportation hubs ( e.g., airports, bus or ferry terminals, train or subway stations, seaports, ports of entry) or any other area that provides transportation in the United States." [my bold]

Note that the entities covered vary from airplanes to ride-sharing platforms, etc. In other words, a very broad jurisdiction that goes beyond entities under the authority of either the FRA or the TSA. It looks to me as though the relevant question is not manner of conveyance or purpose, and I don't think that the post-911 measures are relevant.


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 Post subject: Re: New TSA mask requirements
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:41 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:33 pm
Posts: 139
PMC wrote:
kcrailroader wrote:

This Order must be followed by all passengers on public conveyances (e.g., airplanes, ships, ferries, trains, subways, buses, taxis, ride-shares) traveling into, within, or out of the United States as well as conveyance operators (e.g., crew, drivers, conductors, and other workers involved in the operation of conveyances) and operators of transportation hubs ( e.g., airports, bus or ferry terminals, train or subway stations, seaports, ports of entry) or any other area that provides transportation in the United States." [my bold]


In summary, it appears that if you're an operator of a tourist railroad, you're charged with the responsibility of making sure all passengers and employees comply with the mask mandate. This goes as far as removal of person(s) from the property who do not comply, correct? With this Federal Law now in place, what are the legal ramifications for said tourist railroad when a photo is circulated online of a passenger or employee not wearing a mark? Will your railroad be fined for negligence? Can your railroad be sued? This seems to open up an entire can of worms. If someone can sue for dumping hot coffee on their lap, is your railroad at risk too? Given these new circumstances, I'd almost think twice about selling tickets for 2021, if ever.


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 Post subject: Re: New TSA mask requirements
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:38 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:16 am
Posts: 2087
So will demanding and enforcing customers have ICV cards be next?

https://www.afar.com/magazine/how-vacci ... ually-work

PC

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 Post subject: Re: New TSA mask requirements
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:15 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2492
Why do y'all keep quoting section 1580 when it's 1582 that has anything of import relating to applicability to passenger operations? No one has quoted anything except a reference to a subsection... and I suspect any answers such as they might be would be there, and related to safety of the general public on a conveyance they ride.

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 Post subject: Re: New TSA mask requirements
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:18 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:38 pm
Posts: 84
Here is a copy and paste from ecfr.gov. This does not include appendix A or B for the sake of space.

Ed


Subpart A—General

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§1582.1 Scope.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, this part includes requirements for the following persons. Specific sections in this part provide detailed requirements.

(1) Each passenger railroad carrier.

(2) Each public transportation agency.

(3) Each operator of a rail transit system that is not operating on track that is part of the general railroad system of transportation, including heavy rail transit, light rail transit, automated guideway, cable car, inclined plane, funicular, and monorail systems.

(4) Each tourist, scenic, historic, and excursion rail owner/operator, whether operating on or off the general railroad system of transportation.

(b) This part does not apply to a ferry system required to conduct training pursuant to 46 U.S.C. 70103.

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§1582.3 Terms used in this part.

In addition to the terms in §§1500.3, 1500.5, and 1503.202 of subchapter A and §1570.3 of subchapter D of this chapter, the following term applies to this part.

Security-sensitive employee means an employee whose responsibilities for the owner/operator include one or more of the security-sensitive job functions identified in appendix B to this part if the security-sensitive function is performed in the United States or in direct support of the common carriage of persons or property between a place in the United States and any place outside of the United States.

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§1582.5 Preemptive effect.

Under 49 U.S.C. 20106, issuance of the passenger railroad and public transportation regulations in this subchapter preempts any State law, regulation, or order covering the same subject matter, except an additional or more stringent law, regulation, or order that is necessary to eliminate or reduce an essentially local security hazard; that is not incompatible with a law, regulation, or order of the U.S. Government; and that does not unreasonably burden interstate commerce.

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Subpart B—Security Programs

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§1582.101 Applicability.

The requirements of this subpart apply to the following:

(a) Amtrak (also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corporation).

(b) Each owner/operator identified in Appendix A to this part.

(c) Each owner/operator described in §1582.1(a)(1) through (3) of this part that serves as a host railroad to a freight operation described in §1580.301 of this subchapter or to a passenger train operation described in paragraph (a)(1) or (a)(2) of this section.

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§1582.103 [Reserved]

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§1582.105 [Reserved]

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§1582.107 [Reserved]

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§1582.109 [Reserved]

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§1582.111 [Reserved]

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§1582.113 Security training program general requirements.

(a) Security training program required. Each owner/operator identified in §1582.101 of this part is required to adopt and carry out a security training program under this subpart.

(b) General requirements. The security training program must include the following information:

(1) Name of owner/operator.

(2) Name, title, telephone number, and email address of the primary individual to be contacted with regard to review of the security training program.

(3) Number, by specific job function category identified in Appendix B to this part, of security-sensitive employees trained or to be trained.

(4) Implementation schedule that identifies a specific date by which initial and recurrent security training required by §1570.111 of this subchapter will be completed.

(5) Location where training program records will be maintained.

(6) Curriculum or lesson plan, including learning objectives and method of delivery (such as instructor-led or computer-based training) for each course used to meet the requirements of §1582.115 of this part. TSA may request additional information regarding the curriculum during the review and approval process. If recurrent training under §1570.111 of this subchapter is not the same as initial training, a curriculum or lesson plan for the recurrent training will need to be submitted and approved by TSA.

(7) Plan for ensuring supervision of untrained security-sensitive employees performing functions identified in Appendix B to this part.

(8) Plan for notifying employees of changes to security measures that could change information provided in previously provided training.

(9) Method(s) for evaluating the effectiveness of the security training program in each area required by §1582.115 of this part.

(c) Relation to other training. (1) Training conducted by owner/operators to comply other requirements or standards, such as emergency preparedness training required by the Department of Transportation (DOT) (49 CFR part 239) or other training for communicating with emergency responders to arrange the evacuation of passengers, may be combined with and used to satisfy elements of the training requirements in this subpart.

(2) If the owner/operator submits a security training program that relies on pre-existing or previous training materials to meet the requirements of subpart B, the program submitted for approval must include an index, organized in the same sequence as the requirements in this subpart.

(d) Submission and implementation. The owner/operator must submit and implement the security training program in accordance with the schedules identified in §§1570.109 and 1570.111 of this subchapter.

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§1582.115 Security training and knowledge for security-sensitive employees.

(a) Training required for security-sensitive employees. No owner/operator required to have a security training program under §1582.101 of this part may use a security-sensitive employee to perform a function identified in appendix B to this part unless that individual has received training as part of a security training program approved by TSA under 49 CFR part 1570, subpart B, or is under the direct supervision of an employee who has received the training required by this section as applicable to that security-sensitive function.

(b) Limits on use of untrained employees. Notwithstanding paragraph (a) of this section, a security-sensitive employee may not perform a security-sensitive function for more than sixty (60) calendar days without receiving security training.

(c) Prepare. Each owner/operator must ensure that each of its security-sensitive employees with position- or function-specific responsibilities under the owner/operator's security program have knowledge of how to fulfill those responsibilities in the event of a security threat, breach, or incident to ensure—

(1) Employees with responsibility for transportation security equipment and systems are aware of their responsibilities and can verify the equipment and systems are operating and properly maintained; and

(2) Employees with other duties and responsibilities under the company's security plans and/or programs, including those required by Federal law, know their assignments and the steps or resources needed to fulfill them.

(d) Observe. Each owner/operator must ensure that each of its security-sensitive employees has knowledge of the observational skills necessary to recognize—

(1) Suspicious and/or dangerous items (such as substances, packages, or conditions (for example, characteristics of an IED and signs of equipment tampering or sabotage);

(2) Combinations of actions and individual behaviors that appear suspicious and/or dangerous, inappropriate, inconsistent, or out of the ordinary for the employee's work environment, which could indicate a threat to transportation security; and

(3) How a terrorist or someone with malicious intent may attempt to gain sensitive information or take advantage of vulnerabilities.

(e) Assess. Each owner/operator must ensure that each of its security-sensitive employees has knowledge necessary to—

(1) Determine whether the item, individual, behavior, or situation requires a response as a potential terrorist threat based on the respective transportation environment; and

(2) Identify appropriate responses based on observations and context.

(f) Respond. Each owner/operator must ensure that each of its security-sensitive employees has knowledge of how to—

(1) Appropriately report a security threat, including knowing how and when to report internally to other employees, supervisors, or management, and externally to local, state, or Federal agencies according to the owner/operator's security procedures or other relevant plans;

(2) Interact with the public and first responders at the scene of the threat or incident, including communication with passengers on evacuation and any specific procedures for individuals with disabilities and the elderly; and

(3) Use any applicable self-defense devices or other protective equipment provided to employees by the owner/operator.


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 Post subject: Re: New TSA mask requirements
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:03 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 1938
Location: New Franklin, OH
Well, as I scan over the requirements of 1570, 1580, 1582 and 1584, it appears that the door is open for the TSA to get involved in our industry. I’ll have to take some time to get through all the referenced chapters in detail so I understand it. This isn’t just about mask mandates, it’s about security programs with requirements/regulations, program submittal and approval, unannounced inspections, etc.

Since we don’t seem to be specifically excluded from this, be forewarned that we may have to deal with more bureaucracy.

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 Post subject: Re: New TSA mask requirements
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:21 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 1938
Location: New Franklin, OH
So if I’m reading 1582 correctly, tourist, scenic, historic, and excursion rail owner/operators, whether operating on or off the general railroad system of transportation are included in the 1582.1 Scope of the Public Transportation and Passenger Railroad Security but we aren’t required to have a security program scrutinized by the TSA as we aren’t singled out under 1582.101 Applicability?

Is this correct?

Security awareness under our current rules training will suffice?

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 Post subject: Re: New TSA mask requirements
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:08 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2727
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Here's the trasnmittal letter from TSA about the mask mandate. Also note that this a regulation, not a law. Two different things.

https://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files ... -21-01.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: New TSA mask requirements
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:07 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1716
wilkinsd wrote:
Here's the trasnmittal letter from TSA about the mask mandate. Also note that this a regulation, not a law. Two different things.

https://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files ... -21-01.pdf


Can you provide some examples of regulations vs. laws as regards to railroads?


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 Post subject: Re: New TSA mask requirements
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:25 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1751
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
Can you provide some examples of regulations vs. laws as regards to railroads?
Laws, like the Railroad Safety Appliance Act (automatic couplers and air brakes, etc.), are passed by Congress, possibly after lobbying, and usually require another vote by Congress to get changed or repealed. They're found in the United States Code, USC. Regulations are issued by Government departments, like the Federal Railroad Administration, usually after public comment, and are found in the Code of Federal Regulations CFR. The regulations on mask wearing are examples.


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 Post subject: Re: New TSA mask requirements
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:42 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1716
JimBoylan wrote:
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
Can you provide some examples of regulations vs. laws as regards to railroads?
Laws, like the Railroad Safety Appliance Act (automatic couplers and air brakes, etc.), are passed by Congress, possibly after lobbying, and usually require another vote by Congress to get changed or repealed. They're found in the United States Code, USC. Regulations are issued by Government departments, like the Federal Railroad Administration, usually after public comment, and are found in the Code of Federal Regulations CFR. The regulations on mask wearing are examples.


I was hoping for examples of other regulations though. If I don’t ask for 3-step I can’t say “well it’s not a law.”


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