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 Post subject: Re: Weights on drive wheels, how is it determined
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:30 am
Posts: 312
There's no mention of serious trouble for Lima in the story "Doctoring the Scales" from the December 1998 issue of Trains that covered this story in some detail.

Sounds more like they got away with it without any serious ramifications. No charges were ever filed against Lima or the man behind the ruse. He continued his career with the Allegheny project only bolstering his career rather than holding him back for falsifying records.


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 Post subject: Re: Weights on drive wheels, how is it determined
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:24 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:38 pm
Posts: 52
I guess I stand corrected but if that's how they did things it's no wonder the steam locomotive died. Weighing one axle at a time is accurate and legal for use in trade. For the details of any weighing process in trade see the Department of Commerce publication "Handbook 44".


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 Post subject: Re: Weights on drive wheels, how is it determined
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:44 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:43 am
Posts: 54
tdmidget wrote:
Weighing one axle at a time is accurate and legal for use in trade.

But it certainly is slower than multiple scales (in one unit) that can weigh single axles (or dual axles) in one operation.

Consider how typical commercial truck scales work, three separate scales in one installation.

The Cat Scale system is dominant in the commercial truckstop industry. Here is a screenshot from a relevant page:

Quote:
Standard Trailer
Image
(click thumbnail to see image larger)

As you can see, all three axles are on the scale at one time. Drive onto the scale so that your steer axle is positioned on platform 1, your drive axle on platform 2 and your trailer axle on platform 3.

Page link:
https://catscale.com/how-to-weigh/



This is not a trivial issue. Not only must the truck not be overweight, but all of its axles must also be within weight limits. And yes, a truck can be under the legal weight and still get a citation for having a particular axle group overweight.


If single axle weighing for trucks was practical, it seems unlikely that the industry would spend the money to have 3-platforms systems dominate the industry.


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 Post subject: Re: Weights on drive wheels, how is it determined
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:06 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2477
.


Last edited by Kelly Anderson on Fri Aug 30, 2024 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Weights on drive wheels, how is it determined
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:39 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:25 pm
Posts: 512
Quote:
It turns out that many railroads were understating their locomotive weights, which shortchanged the wages paid to operating employees.


I'm Shocked that railroad management tried to "stick it" to the very employees that were busy trying to "milk" every dollar they could out of the railroad....

Don't get me wrong, there was a time (100 years ago) when railroad management tried to "stick it" the the workers as much as possible. Then the unions got involved (RR unions where some of the earliest in the USA) and levelled the playing field somewhat.

Then the unions went too far the other way (my opinion) and forgot that the real competition to the RR was the trucks, airplanes, buses, etc.

It was only the almost complete collapse of the railroads in the NE USA that woke everybody up that the fight was not RR Worker versus RR Management but was really RR versus all the other forms of transportation.


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 Post subject: Re: Weights on drive wheels, how is it determined
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:17 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2732
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Kelly Anderson wrote:
It is in the book Lima the History. The weight initially advertised was 724,500 pounds, while the weight recorded in 1941 was over 770,000 pounds. In 1945, C&O sent one back to Lima for re-weighing which resulted in a weight recorded at 771,300 pounds. Lima reportedly settled with C&O for "as much as $3,000,000". The author surmised that the engine crews put in for substantial back pay, but didn't find records of it.


I need to get this book. Based on this post alone, I've moved it up on my "to acquire list."

NYCRRson wrote:
I'm Shocked that railroad management tried to "stick it" to the very employees that were busy trying to "milk" every dollar they could out of the railroad....


I also wonder if it was because railroads weren't of the habit to reweigh locomotives after rebuild programs, or changes were made. I first became aware of the issue when reading a book recently on Great Northern steam power. In at least one case on the GN, the "advertised" weight was heavier than the actual locomotive when it was re-weighed. The book listed docket numbers to the National Board of Adjustment, and I'm in the process of having the awards pulled so I can see for myself what the stated positions were.

_________________
David M. Wilkins

"They love him, gentlemen, and they respect him, not only for himself, for his character, for his integrity and judgment and iron will, but they love him most of all for the enemies he has made."


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 Post subject: Re: Weights on drive wheels, how is it determined
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:20 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:10 pm
Posts: 89
LIMA and the skulduggery regarding the weights of the 2-6-6-6 is a fascinating story. And the C&O did not know that something was amiss UNTIL the Virginian 2-6-6-6 class locomotives were ready to be shipped over the C&O 4-5 years later. The Chessie thought their bridges couldn't handle the VGN locomotives over their bridges!


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 Post subject: Re: Weights on drive wheels, how is it determined
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:05 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:38 pm
Posts: 52
Rader Sidetrack wrote:
tdmidget wrote:
Weighing one axle at a time is accurate and legal for use in trade.

But it certainly is slower than multiple scales (in one unit) that can weigh single axles (or dual axles) in one operation.

Consider how typical commercial truck scales work, three separate scales in one installation.

The Cat Scale system is dominant in the commercial truckstop industry. Here is a screenshot from a relevant page:

Quote:
Standard Trailer
Image
(click thumbnail to see image larger)

As you can see, all three axles are on the scale at one time. Drive onto the scale so that your steer axle is positioned on platform 1, your drive axle on platform 2 and your trailer axle on platform 3.

Page link:
https://catscale.com/how-to-weigh/



This is not a trivial issue. Not only must the truck not be overweight, but all of its axles must also be within weight limits. And yes, a truck can be under the legal weight and still get a citation for having a particular axle group overweight.


If single axle weighing for trucks was practical, it seems unlikely that the industry would spend the money to have 3-platforms systems dominate the industry.


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