> It wouldn't make economic sense to
> capitalize the cost of a new steam
> locomotive as a one off or to spend most of
> its life on cold display. Operating tourist
> railroads are the only rational market for
> them, they need to be models which are
> suitable for most tourist line use - say a
> 4-6-0 or a light 2-8-0, a 2-6-2 for lines
> with no turning. Crown Metal Products built
> some nice 3 foot 4-4-0's for light amusement
> park lines, perhaps a heavier model could be
> worked out for older styles in heavier
> railroad use. Maybe a Glover mogul for
> loggers and industrial lines?

Admittedly, this is all blue-sky, but yes, that's exactly what I was thinking--a batch of 4, 5, or 6 new "unversal tourist engines" for a consortium of buyer-operators, much as was done in the 80s with the two (intended three) SYs and the one JS from China.

You're right about SLM Winterthur--they did kind-of build that new 2-10-0, by modifying a stock Kriegslok with all the proposed changes. And yes, I'm sure both SML and Ffestiniog's Boston Lodge would be willing to issue a quote on new US-style 2' Forneys.

I'd still be interested in seeing some rough order of magnitude, back of the envelope costs for such projects from those qualified to issue such an opinion.

eledbetter@rypn.org

> That's what I suspected. Not having the
> CFR's in front of me, how does the wording
> on them read? Is it possible there will come
> a time when someone within the FRA
> interprets those CFR's as pertaining only to
> existing locomotives, and not newly built
> versions updated from older designs?

The basis by which Part 230 works is to treat every engine coming out of its 1472 day inspection as a new engine with a new Form 4. Whether an engine is initially restored, has run out its service days to be overhauled, or is brand new makes no difference, and is the same amount of paperwork for both the operator, and the FRA. There is little or no room for interpretation on that score.

kelly@strasburgrailroad.com

As a base line on 2Â’ gage costs, I offer the following. Last year we built a 2Â’ gage unpowered Thomas replica for Edaville, for considerably less than $150,000. This included all design work, roller bearing axles, drivers, tires, rods, frame, equalizing, and superstructure. To have a working steam locomotive would require the addition of cylinders, main rods, valve gear, boiler, and refinements to the frame and superstructure to make working water tanks, etc. To have a steaming 2Â’ Thomas? Perhaps triple, or quadruple the above figure (wild guess).

The cost of these items is hard to judge before the first example is completed. The V&T Lyon replicaÂ’s cost is driven considerably higher due to our clientÂ’s insistence that it be an exact duplicate of the original as far as possible, requiring, for example, many castings of parts that could be fabricated more economically today.

As it stands today, the Lyon is on hold due to the sour economy draining our clientÂ’s non-essential budget. The running gear, lead truck, cylinders, and valve gear are finished and ready for steam, except for the valve chests themselves. The boiler is perhaps 35% complete. The tender has been started.


kelly@strasburgrailroad.com

I agree whole-heartedly that replicas are not only needed but necessary elements in interpreting rail history. Its this line of thought that has our museum looking at a "reproduction" 2-4-0 Porter. We quickly balanced (along with the help of others more knowledgable in the specifics of steam than myself, namely Dave Lathrop and Marty Knox) the restoration versus replication, and for a multiple of reasons, replication looks the way to go. There are no questions about damaging historic fabric, and frankly, as a curator, that bugs me a great deal. I'm also a railfan, but destroying probably better than 80% of an 1878-built Porter (granted, probably really 80% of 2-4-0 Porter at the end of its service life circa 1930 or so) just to get it operating and meeting FRA standards is beyond the common good of what that engine represents. Having said this, I should say that at the moment neither is a real option, as we have 1830's fort building to finish "restoration" of first (and that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish). ;-)

TJ

> As an example, lets take the several 2-foot
> gauge railroad restorations happening in New
> England. There are the well known,
> Wiscasset, Waterville & Farmington
> Railway in Alna, ME, the SR&RL up in
> Phillips, The Maine Narrow Gauge in
> Portland, ME, Edaville, and some smaller
> less visible efforts underway elsewhere.
> It's almost to the point that there aren't
> enough steam engines to go around!

> The economy of "scale" should mean
> that a replica 2-footer could be built for a
> fraction of what it would cost to build
> anything standard gauge. So with the
> pricetag of most restorations approaching
> the stratosphere, why hasn't it been done?

> The Jupiter and the 119 were built by
> Oconnor to near original specs, so why not a
> WW&F #7 ?


Port Huron Museum

tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

DLM (formerly SLM's steam shop) has offered recent proposals for new steam locomotives for the Darjeeling Himalaya Railway (2 foot gauge) in India. I don't know the figures off hand, but I know they weren't cheap. Still, compared to the cost of a full FRA-compliant restoration of a "park" engine (if one exists), a new locomotive might not be that far out of line, and it would undoubtedly be far cheaper to operate.

DLM has proposed some narrow gauge 2-8-2T's for Germany which could probably be cosmetically altered to U.S. appearance without much trouble.

If any of you are serious about buying new engines, I'm sure DLM would be glad to discuss figures with you. See their homepage at the link below.

> You're right about SLM Winterthur--they did
> kind-of build that new 2-10-0, by modifying
> a stock Kriegslok with all the proposed
> changes. And yes, I'm sure both SML and
> Ffestiniog's Boston Lodge would be willing
> to issue a quote on new US-style 2' Forneys.

> I'd still be interested in seeing some rough
> order of magnitude, back of the envelope
> costs for such projects from those qualified
> to issue such an opinion.


DLM
whodom@awod.com

As much as I like the Maine 2-Footers, the prototype 2-foot gauge steam locomotive I'd love to see replicated is one of the long-gone Mount Gretna Narrow Gauge Railroad's three Baldwin-built 4-4-0's. See the below link for a photo. Definitely would look sharp running the loop at Edaville!

Yes sir, win a really big Powerball jackpot and I'd be on phone to Linn and Kelly the next day!! Heck, I'm sure the Strasburg guys wouldn't mind constructing an engine from their long-vanished "neighbor" over the mountains to the northwest!

OK done dreamin',
Jim Robinson


Mount Gretna 2' Baldwin 4-4-0