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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2689
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
Do I understand correctly that upon further examination of the enlarged photo that the main rod was indeed cut??

Thanks, Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11824
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
co614 wrote:
Nevertheless, the Salone entity that owns the northern end of the EBT has evidently made a deal with someone to purchase EBT # 3 and it is about to go to the new owner unless the state steps in under the Historic Register law and prevents its departure. I'm not a lawyer and have no idea if that's even possible.


At least this time, when someone is blitheringly clueless as to how "Historic Register law" works, he admits it up front.

First off, the EBT was designated a National Historic Landmark in 1964 and added to the National Register of Historic Places in 1966. In spite of that, the railroad was added in 1996 to the National Trust for Historic Preservation's list of America's Most Endangered Places.

Second, as far as I can tell the designation didn't apply to the entire railroad. If it had, people could have successfully challenged the sale of the northern section years ago, or even to the sale of 0-6-0 #6 in the 1970s.

If "Historic Register law" worked the way many people presume (and it doesn't), there wouldn't be green paint on a 4-8-4 in Virginia right now, as someone would have declared it a "landmark" or whatever.


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 3:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:55 pm
Posts: 70
There are plenty of folks in that area with steam knowledge, and I'm sure many would have volunteered a few hours help to move this w/o doing a butcher job on it.
Cannot for the life of me understand why the "mover" didn't just pick up the phone and ask someone. Clearly they had no idea what they were doing


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:21 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:54 pm
Posts: 8
If this information has already been posted before, please ignore.

I was real curious about these folks as well so I pulled up the GIS records for the property ( easily found) and public records show the owners as:
EAST BROAD TOP RAILROAD PRESERVATION ASSOCIATION
PO BOX 585
DUBOIS PA 15801

Again since they are registered as a non-profit ( of course !) the Association records are also viewable on-line. Most recent filings show:

President: Larry Salone
Secretary & Treasurer: Jim Salone
Director: Sam Mannino
Director: Douglas Salone

There's lots of interesting stuff in those required non-profit Form 990 filings, like their orgs objective statement I've copied below:
[ CONTINUED REHABILITATION AND MAINTENANCE ON THE MOUNT UNION, PA LINEAR PARK AND OUTDOOR MUSEUM ALONG THE ORIGINAL EBT RIGHT OF WAY. INCLUDES REHABILITATION OF TRACK, THE ORIGINAL BLOCK ENGINEHOUSE AND HISTORIC EQUIPMENT TO INCLUDE: 0-6-0 STEAM SWITCHER ENGINE, (10) DIVERSE AND HAND MADE BY THE EBT COAL HOPPERS FOR DISPLAY, (2) SIDE DUMP CARS, NARROW AND STANDARD GAUGE HAND MADE BY THE EBT. RESTORATION BEGINNING ON THE COAL TIPPLE FROM THE LATE 1800'S, EARLY 1900'S, IN DOWNTOWN MOUNT UNION. BEGINNING TO CLEAR THE RAILROAD LINE AT THE FAR SOUTH END FROM THE AUGHWICK BRIDGE (ONE OF THE FIRST CONCRETE ARCH BRIDGES IN THE US) FOR VISITORS TO SEE THE BRIDGE, AND ALSO TO THEN ALLOW FOR NARROW GAUGE SPEEDER RIDES TO EXPLORE THE RIGHT OF WAY FROM THE BRIDGE NORTH TOWARDS MOUNT UNION BORO, STOPPING AT THE RIVERVIEW BUSINESS PARK. ALMOST 2-3 MILES OF NARROW GAUGE TRACK AND TRAVEL.]

Someone who is a better money guy than me could read the financial situation, but it appears they report $2.7M in liabilities and claim $3.3M in assets. 2022 Revenue was $97, $89k of which was government grant money and expenses were $143k, $92k of which was "deferred comp". So it appears Net Assets shrank by $46k.

This is the link for their non-profit data and links to the 501C financial filings back to 2009 in case you know anyone who might really enjoy reading them.
https://www.instrumentl.com/990-report/east-broad-top-railroad-preservation-association#990-forms

None of this speaks to the condition, title or rumored "sale" of EBT #3, but it seems that the rehabilitation and maintenance on the 0-6-0 is claimed as part of the non-profits mission statement.

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:22 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:03 pm
Posts: 185
Location: Pennsylvania
BWills wrote:
There are plenty of folks in that area with steam knowledge, and I'm sure many would have volunteered a few hours help to move this w/o doing a butcher job on it.
Cannot for the life of me understand why the "mover" didn't just pick up the phone and ask someone. Clearly they had no idea what they were doing


Apparently the mover wasn't the one who cut the rods.


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:36 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 1027
J.David wrote:
I don't think that the main rod is cut off. The main rod has been slid out of the strap that holds the big end and the main rod big end bearing onto the main crank pin.
J.David
There are two closeup photos of the rods, taken long before the move, on Christopher Coleman's Old Eastie website: EBT Locomotive Roster 3rd 3

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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2689
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
Question for J.David or Kelly Anderson.........does the enlarged photo of the fireman's side show the main rod cut with both ends still in place??

Thanks, Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 8:12 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2477
co614 wrote:
does the enlarged photo of the fireman's side show the main rod cut with both ends still in place??
That's the way I see it, going by that one photo.

With the eccentric crank removed, I don't understand why they didn't slide the rear portion of the rod off of the crankpin.


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 10:57 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:14 pm
Posts: 618
Location: Essex, Connecticut, USA
Greetings:
Kelly is correct, the main rod has been cut. Most unfortunate, not to mention inexplicable.
J.David


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:00 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:55 am
Posts: 27
Here is his business card

Attachment:
Salone_Contact.jpg
Salone_Contact.jpg [ 204.58 KiB | Viewed 3387 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:32 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2477
BWills wrote:
Cannot for the life of me understand why the "mover" didn't just pick up the phone and ask someone.
Perhaps some local needed an I-beam to lift the engine out of his '72 Matador...


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 9:33 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:18 pm
Posts: 546
Location: Illinois
To follow up on a point Kelly made: going back a few years ago, this engine was already completely ruined/trashed - it was a giant piece of rust on wheels. People think an engine sitting inside for decades would be in good shape - definitely not the case here. The condition of the rods would be my last concern with this engine.


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 10:05 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2689
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
Several friends from that area who had access in relatively recent times to see the locomotive in the Mt. Union shed confirm the decades of a leaking roof had definitely taken a toll. They said the outwardly it looked " like a giant rust pile".

I guess the truth be told it probably had next to no chance of ever steaming again but it would have be nice to see it preserved and cosmetically rehabbed for display at Mt. Union as I'm sure that sooner or later the EBTF will acquire the last 4 miles on the northern end and restore the Mt.Union complex as it was " in the day".

IMHO-Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 5:04 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2820
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Nice pretty coat of paint - but I imagine it is still full of asbestos

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Danmarks Tekniske Universitet


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 Post subject: Re: Mt. Union, Pa. locomotive trashed ???
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:08 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:05 pm
Posts: 178
J.David wrote:
Greetings:
Kelly is correct, the main rod has been cut. Most unfortunate, not to mention inexplicable.
J.David

Feature that the rod was cut as an expedient measure because the rod bearing on the third driver is frozen and those tasked with moving the engine found it easier and more time efficient to cut the rod rather than get the bearings on each end of the rod unfrozen and capable of movement.


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