The red rod on 91 was done on a whim by the crew and frankly looks funny. Either paint it black or polish the rods up people!! They also took the raised numerals off the cab because they were "causing problems." Problems?! All one has to do is bolt them to the cab sides, they stay on!! The white off-center lettering also looks goofy. the M&H should look at what Strasburg has done with 89 and learn some lessons in asthetics. I will give the M&H credit in that the front end looks really good. Why do people have to goof with the way an engine looks--keep it simple, all-black, graphited smokebox and firebox, minimal lettering in Roman style, no whitewalls or running board striping, etc. It's that simple!

The red rod on 31 was a Huber Leath-ism. It remains on the engine as a compromise since he is still a director of the SRR and can still weigh in on matters.

> Interesting point,

> While the red on the running gear on the
> park engine above doesn't seem right, I've
> seen other CN locomotives with red on the
> running gear just like the red trimmed main
> rod on the 91 on the M&H. If I recall
> correctly, Strasburg's 31 had a red trimmed
> main rod at one time.

> Dave Crosby

> The red rod on 91 was done on a whim by the
> crew and frankly looks funny. Either paint
> it black or polish the rods up people!! They
> also took the raised numerals off the cab
> because they were "causing
> problems." Problems?! All one has to do
> is bolt them to the cab sides, they stay
> on!! The white off-center lettering also
> looks goofy. the M&H should look at what
> Strasburg has done with 89 and learn some
> lessons in asthetics. I will give the
> M&H credit in that the front end looks
> really good. Why do people have to goof with
> the way an engine looks--keep it simple,
> all-black, graphited smokebox and firebox,
> minimal lettering in Roman style, no
> whitewalls or running board striping, etc.
> It's that simple!

At the risk of being blunt, the people that spent YEARS restoring the engine seem content with its appearance, perhaps the critics should be content or tolerant as well.



superheater@rrmail.com

Just wanted to clarify that my post was not accusatory or anything along those lines. I wouldn't care if the engine was painted pink with white polka dots! Was only curious.

Joshua

Homepage
joshua@joshuakblay.com

I my opinion it should and usually is left up to the taste of the owning/operating railroad. Back in the 50-60's on steam shortlines many railroads decorated engines to their tastes, look at the ET&WNC's 2-8-0's or E&CO's engines. If we want to get accurate, the Canadian National was a fan of having their loco's wear white walled tires and white running board strips while in service. I have seen many pictures of the 2-6-0's in service wearing these schemes. I personally like an engine with high drivers with white walls. Its all a matter of taste, and my 2 cents is, as long as it runs, who cares.....

jeff@compucomis.net

I can't help but throw in my two cents.

Interestingly enough, those of us on the restoration crew politely debated the issue of 91's livery for years, throughout the better part of restoration process in fact. I think the only thing we agreed upon is that we didn't agree on anything. But as far as I know, even though some were a bit skeptical of the final scheme that was decided upon, all were pleased with how she eventually came out.

I think everyone was really most concerned with how she would run. And the 91 has not dissappointed. She has been a good girl, a good steamer with plenty of power to do what has been asked of her, with a minimum of mechanical problems and headaches.

I can really understand the sentiments of those who would have liked to have seen a more authentic treatment. However, the M&H does not claim to be a true museum, and it was the railroad's desire to have the 91 lettered for the railroad. I think what we did was a good compromise in that the locomotive, while cosmetically different, has retained its authentic CNR configuration and form. The striping, lettering, and stuff like that is easily "reversed" to CNR if so desired by the present or a future owner.

As for the actual scheme that was applied, that's naturally very subjective. Everyone has their preferences.

The 91 has been put to bed for the season. Whether you want to give us kudos or raspberries for our paint job on her, we hope you'll come to the M&H and do it in person next operating season.

M&H Railroad
smzarick@hotmail.com

Steve,

That may be the most well-reasoned response to such critiques as I have ever heard. Kudos! If you represent the morale and positive atttitude of the M&H as a whole, you guys have a great foundation to build on!

Rob

Steve,

The may be the most well-reasoned response to such critiques as I have ever heard. Kudos! If you represent the morale and positive atttitude of the M&H as a whole, you guys have a great foundation to build on!

Rob

> I think what
> we did was a good compromise in that the
> locomotive, while cosmetically different,
> has retained its authentic CNR configuration
> and form. The striping, lettering, and stuff
> like that is easily "reversed" to
> CNR if so desired by the present or a future
> owner.

John Craft and 35 fellow enthusiasts paid to have the Strasburg #89 correctly painted for a single charter. They were happy to have the railroad leave the engine painted that way, but on some other railroads, such as the Durango and Silverton, the historic lettering gets painted out at the end of the charter and only the attendees of the special get to see it that way.

I would suggest a compromise for the future, where the M&H lettering is positioned in a way that a magnetic CN wafer logo can cover up the M&H lettering, making it cheaper and easier to offer a special photo charter. This could be a source of extra revenue to the M&H, while still keeping their image intact for the general public.

Congratulations on bringing the #91 back to life, and especially to leaving the essential CN character intact. It's a real cutie, and at 26,000 pounds TE, plenty powerful enough for tourist service.

Kudos to the M&H!



trainrider47@aol.com

> I can't help but throw in my two cents.

> Interestingly enough, those of us on the
> restoration crew politely debated the issue
> of 91's livery for years, throughout the
> better part of restoration process in fact.
> I think the only thing we agreed upon is
> that we didn't agree on anything. But as far
> as I know, even though some were a bit
> skeptical of the final scheme that was
> decided upon, all were pleased with how she
> eventually came out.

> I think everyone was really most concerned
> with how she would run. And the 91 has not
> dissappointed. She has been a good girl, a
> good steamer with plenty of power to do what
> has been asked of her, with a minimum of
> mechanical problems and headaches.

> I can really understand the sentiments of
> those who would have liked to have seen a
> more authentic treatment. However, the
> M&H does not claim to be a true museum,
> and it was the railroad's desire to have the
> 91 lettered for the railroad. I think what
> we did was a good compromise in that the
> locomotive, while cosmetically different,
> has retained its authentic CNR configuration
> and form. The striping, lettering, and stuff
> like that is easily "reversed" to
> CNR if so desired by the present or a future
> owner.

> As for the actual scheme that was applied,
> that's naturally very subjective. Everyone
> has their preferences.

> The 91 has been put to bed for the season.
> Whether you want to give us kudos or
> raspberries for our paint job on her, we
> hope you'll come to the M&H and do it in
> person next operating season.

Steve:

I too think you guys did a great job on restoring the 91. I also understand the desire that the Middletown & Hummelstown name appear on the tender (as it well should.) And if you painted it "straight across", the letters would be too small to read. The only problem I have is that the way the tender is currently lettered makes it look a bit lopsided. The next time you repaint it, why not consider "centering" the three lines? Heck, you might even be able to make the lettering a bit larger! Just a suggestion mind you. Would really like to try to see the 91 steam in person next year. Hopefully I will be able to work it out.

Les Beckman (Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum/North Judson, Indiana)

midlandblb@cs.com

I saw it run a few weeks ago and not only did it run good but I was impressed with the work done on it. They also did a good job of crew training. It may not look right to some but it runs right. I bet it cost a lot less than most rebuilds. And it was with out a steam god!. regards bb

> And it was with out a steam god!.

...not sure what a "steam god" is, but the M&H's Brian Bachman is no stranger to steam locomotives and comes from a "tourist line family". He and a few others (myself included) had a nice after hours BS session hanging around 91 at the end of her second weekend of operation. He mentioned that 91's tender lettering style reflects an early Philadelphia & Reading style--the M&H runs over an ex-Reading branch--though I can't say I've seen photos of P&R engines with this style. Anyway the tender lettering and the red trim on the main rods do (IMO) look a lot better in person than in the photos. Brian detailed out the work that went into 91's overhaul and I can say that this was NOT a "slap a coat of fresh paint on it and go" rebuilt. These boys can be right proud of their engine no matter how the rods and tender are painted! Be sure to get to the M&H next season--91 puts on quite a show climbing the (I believe 3%) grade up to the Indian Echo Caverns station. Despite what some have posted in the past, Brian and everyone else at the M&H is very friendly--just use common sense when about the railroad.

Regards,
Jim Robinson

Gee, you put up one picture...

I have to agree with the sentiments of those above. The M&H crew did an excellent job on the engine and are a real professional lot in operations as well. I've had the pleasure of their company on several occasions this year.

I like the look of the engine. ItÂ’s different, but it should be. The M&H is not a museum but a railroad, and the red and white on the engine compares nicely with their red and white (wine & creme?) passenger cars.

Steve's response to an essentially anonymous swipe was more level headed than I could ever hope to be.

Three cheers for the M&H and many happy returns.

Dave Crosby


bing@epix.net

> Gee, you put up one picture...

> I have to agree with the sentiments of those
> above. The M&H crew did an excellent job
> on the engine and are a real professional
> lot in operations as well. I've had the
> pleasure of their company on several
> occasions this year.

> I like the look of the engine. ItÂ’s
> different, but it should be. The M&H is
> not a museum but a railroad, and the red and
> white on the engine compares nicely with
> their red and white (wine & creme?)
> passenger cars.

> Steve's response to an essentially anonymous
> swipe was more level headed than I could
> ever hope to be.

> Three cheers for the M&H and many happy
> returns.

> Dave Crosby
To Dave and all
Thanks for the kind words on #91, It has been a long hard road to put together a team ,instate a program and see a project of this magnatude threw. This was not a paint and go but a real rebuild, new cab sides ,we fabed a new tender frame a retube job and 50 stay bolts and half as meny boiler studs, made washout plugs and new side rode bearings, riveted in a new smoke box floor, rebuilt all the valves , and the list goes on and on.
SoI say to all come out to se this bautifull engine it is a real tribute to a great volenteer group

dirc183@dejazzd.com

Hey, does anyone know if Fred Steck knows about the restoration of his former loco? I have to think he would be proud...

TJ

> To Dave and all
> Thanks for the kind words on #91, It has
> been a long hard road to put together a team
> ,instate a program and see a project of this
> magnatude threw. This was not a paint and go
> but a real rebuild, new cab sides ,we fabed
> a new tender frame a retube job and 50 stay
> bolts and half as meny boiler studs, made
> washout plugs and new side rode bearings,
> riveted in a new smoke box floor, rebuilt
> all the valves , and the list goes on and
> on.
> SoI say to all come out to se this bautifull
> engine it is a real tribute to a great
> volenteer group


Port Huron Museum
tjgaffney@phmuseum.org