Might be a few days - maybe Jason can post one quicker. In NC for the next week or so.

dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

> Might be a few days - maybe Jason can post
> one quicker. In NC for the next week or so.

> dave

Wow! Neat shots, and great discussion.

amiller@rtms-movietrains.com

Brian,

One of my contacts in Australia knows someone with builder's lists for both Vulcan Iron Works and H.K. Porter, and will try to find out exactly what locomotive this was. Some of my other contacts have builder's lists as well, and may be able to help.

This was an ordinary industrial locomotive in an obscure location, so it would nothing but a stroke of luck to find a picture of this exact locomotive in service. But these locomotives were a comodity item, and were built by the dozens; all pretty much the same in appearance. Someone can probably provide you with a picture a sister engine once we know exactly what it was.

With all of our contacts, all of our lists, and the internet, it is easy to think we "got them all". It still amazes me when a new one like this turns up, and continues to make me wonder how many more forgotton locomotives there are out there.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james@survivingworldsteam.com

Hi, everyone. Brian and I have been attempting to film this locomotive in the Great Circle Mine now for about a month. Due to lousy conditions it's dificult to get good video but had a good run just before Christmas. Yesterday a still photography team went in but was limited to 10' visibility due to outflow from the tunnel it's in. We hope to discover a builders plate on it in the near future. Another team just ahead of us in an adjacent tunnel yesterday actually dicovered tracks, but didn't have a measurement device in hand. If there is interest I'll create a web streaming movie of the engine if it helps perspective. The snapshots you see I made from the same clip. James, you can go ahead and include a picture on your cd-rom, or wait for a better quality shot from the still team. The still team did manage to get dimensions while they were there yesterday, Brian will post when he returns from out of town. Glad there is interest in this kind of thing! We sure are having fun. Any suggestions/pictures for identifying the make of this machine are welcome.

> All joking aside, Brian, it is neat. It
> reminds me of the pair of Vulcan Iron Works
> tank engines that are sunk in Sherkston
> Quarry in Ontario, Canada. It also reminds
> me of the above-water remains of the Vulcan
> Iron Works engine near the culm pile at
> Wanamie, PA; I wonder what happened to it.

> One big difference between the Wanamie
> engine and this one is that the steam and
> sand domes on the Wanamie engines were
> nearly flush with the top of the water tank.
> These obviously protrude above it.

> I would say it is either a H.K. Porter of
> Vulcan Iron Works engine. In regards to age,
> I would think post-1900; but couldn't tell
> any better than that. As deep as the silt
> is, there could be a small pair of wheels
> under the cab; it may in fact be an 0-4-2T.

> Thank you Brian for sharing them with us.
> Could I include one of them in my next
> update to my "Survivng World Steam
> Locomotive" CD-ROM?

> -James Hefner
> Hebrews 10:20a


bkoch@vigoris.net

> Could you post a photo? I don't think the
> divers that found this engine have much of
> an idea of what it should look like.

Found a picture of Atlantic Steel #1, then came across this -- which seemed to be a closer match. The tank on the sunken engine appears to be flush with the front of the smokebox and the smokestack rises high above the tank as well.

The below photo of Anaconda RR Porter #9, is from the Bob Rathke collection and can be found on George Elwood's Fallen Flags site.



http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-a/anac-s9.jpg

SJHussar@aol.com

If you can remove the muck around them, you can get a rough idea of the builder by counting the driver spokes. Vulcans and Davenports usually have 12-spoke drivers, Porters have usually 10 or less. Can't remember about Baldwins or Alco/Cooke.

ryarger@rypn.org

Brian and Art;

If you clear the muck from around the front wheel, you can take a look at the saddle (the part between the cylinders that holds the boiler up) and cylinder themselves.

Some Porters have the builder's plate mounted on the saddle; especially if the tank is wrapped around the boiler like this one. Also, you can sometimes find the name of the builder cast into the cylinders as well.

Thank you again for sharing your discovery with us; I am looking forward to seeing your still pictures.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

> If you can remove the muck around them, you
> can get a rough idea of the builder by
> counting the driver spokes. Vulcans and
> Davenports usually have 12-spoke drivers,
> Porters have usually 10 or less. Can't
> remember about Baldwins or Alco/Cooke.


Surviving World Steam Project
james@survivingworldsteam.com

Guys,

don't even use the word restore about an unterwater engine line the ones you have been talking about.

Take a look a the Mariners Museum web site and see what they plan to do to the USS Monitor parts that they raised, including the engine.

How many railroad museums have the likes of $35 million to think about?

There are still far too many Park engines that need help to use that word about ubder water stuff!

Ted Miles


ted_miles@nps.gov

A picture would be nice. Again thank you all for the help and interest. The team that dove on the little engine took measurments as follows in engineer scale of things. Front boiler, 5.6' across the hole is 1.9', length id 11.7. The firebox is 4.5' across and lenght of 3'. the operator platform is 2.5'.
the question of combustion is a good one. where we found the train is some sort of unloading, switching, gathering etc. Another team ventured into what appears to be a tunnel with the rails intact and guess the guage to be 2' no tape measure. Again thank you all. Brian
> Dave,

> Could you post a photo? I don't think the
> divers that found this engine have much of
> an idea of what it should look like.

> Regards,
> Hugh


bdm@mindspring.com

From what I've heard, to use a steam loco in a mine you fire it outside of the mine with good coal, let the gasses burn off ond then go in with a light fire and a full head of steam. You never add fuel while in the mine. Mostly it sounds like
you would run cars in and out with a minimun of switching in the mine.
Mike N.

2rivers@upstel.net

Will the videos be shown at "Beneath the Sea"
(Meadowlands Exhibition Center, Secaucus, N.J.)
this March? Could we get Jim Boyd to narrate the
historical commentary?
I'm willing to lobby the management to include it.

TyburnRR@cs.com

The video we are making will be shown at the Ozark Cave Diving Alliance's 6th annual conference in Springfield, Mo. April 3, 2004. We're actually diving this flooded mine because all the local springs we usually explore and survey are flowing too strongly right now so we're doing the next best thing. We hope to get the track measurements this coming weekend, check for the # of spokes, and look harder for a builders plate. We're not familiar with "Beneath the Sea". What is it?

> Will the videos be shown at "Beneath
> the Sea"
> (Meadowlands Exhibition Center, Secaucus,
> N.J.)
> this March? Could we get Jim Boyd to narrate
> the
> historical commentary?
> I'm willing to lobby the management to
> include it.


bkoch@vigoris.net

> The video we are making will be shown at the
> Ozark Cave Diving Alliance's 6th annual
> conference in Springfield, Mo. April 3,
> 2004.
> We're not familiar with
> "Beneath the Sea". What is it?

BTS is the largest NorthEast Dive Show, often
on the 4th weekend of March. Jim Boyd, Editor
Emeritus of "Railfan & Railroad" demonstrates
some of his equipment there. In 2004, it's the
26th, 27th, and 28th.
http://www.beneaththesea.org/
has information, including about the video
contest and prizes. The deadline for 2005's
contest is not yet, attendence is over 13,000.
Please give details about Springfield, some of
the rest of us may be able to attend



TyburnRR@cs.com

hey, where is this located? you mentioned its in a tunnel? thanks

chris

Exploring PA's Abandoned Coal Mines and Structures

chris@undergroundminers.com

> hey, where is this located? you mentioned
> its in a tunnel? thanks

> chris

Chris, yes it is in a tunnel of an old lead mine.The engine is about 200' back from the entrance, which made of 4 seperate doors. The water is around 170' deep and the surface is maybe 50' from grade. From your post I take that you are PA cavers who have gone to mines :-)great fun caving isnt it? Brian

bdm@mindspring.com