Gentlemen! Let us cool down a bit and step away from this conversation.
2101 is in Baltimore for the forseeable future, and I don't think that resorting to 4-letter words, name-calling, and other ad-homenin attacks will really change anything. Plus, I feel that Erik is going to step in at any moment and remind all of us of the Interchange's Terms of Service. These terms prohibit the use of profanity, along with other things that have been in the two posts.

If you can have a discussion about the preservation of historic railway equipment in a calm and reasonable manner, then do so. Anything else is just counterproductive

RYPN Interchange Rules and Terms of Service
david.wilkins@bardstown.com

You Know it was 25 Years ago this past weekend that the Locomotive was in the fire.

-justin

> I believe the 2101 is far from being
> operable. The engine was caught in a fire
> that burned down the roundhouse around it.
> The extreme heat did a lot of damage to the
> engine. Not only has it been burned but it
> has been sitting outside ever since. From
> what I hear it is a sad sight right now.
> Now, I'm sure that it could be redone with
> an extremely large amount of money but there
> are other T-1s that are in much better shape
> that could be redone. Not to mention the
> 2100 in Canada that is operable but would
> need converting back to coal and some other
> adjustments. I would much rather see that
> engine back in the states than the 2101
> removed from the B&O RR Museum.
> Greg


qcmrs18@yahoo.com

> yea i know but I hope Bob dimond gets his
> way mainly because if we ever get BEDT 16 up
> and running I would love to do a photo shoot
> in Brookyln but that is years from now.

Unfortunately, the only way you will probably ever get a photo of BEDT 16 operating in Brooklyn again is via Adobe Photoshop.



janklorenzen@msn.com

> Alex, disagree with me if you like, but
> don't ever refer to me as a
> "foamer". Thank you.

*You all *sound* alike, so......... I'll stand on my opinion that the 2101 looks
> ridiculous in that AFT #1 paint, badly faded
> and unsightly as it is. I will further stand
> on my opinion that it rightfully belongs in
> the state where it was built and operated.

*I will completely concede a degree of non-cooperation from the B&O Museum on this matter. I have personally attempted to see if a volunteer crew could be brought to the Museum from Reading or elsewhere to make some progress towards restoration of the locomotive--mind you, *after* I posted photos of its deplorable condition to this very forum and stirred a hot-headed tempest (and got my picture on "wanted" posters and targets around the shops, I'm sure). The only thing they wanted to hear--and this was someone official--was how big a check we could write. (The estimate was somewhere between $40K and $50K for repainting AFT 1, as I recall.) Now, I concede that they're hamstrung by insurance regulations, and I'm willing to wager that any theoretically-rational compromise (like relocating her to another site for painting) is somehow out of the question. That's the breaks. A bureaucracy like that is a huge obstacle when it comes to a mission like volunteers repainting a loco, but it also means they have enough insurance and werewithal to survive last year's roof collapse--an event that would have permanently killed most lesser museums.

Nonetheless, the "demands" for the 2101's repatriation I hear from professed Reading fans on this board and elsewhere are NEVER matched with ANY coherent proposal that an august and professional museum like the B&O Museum would ever consider. No, let me rephrase that--they're never matched with ANY plan. Period. The attitude seems to be only "she's not a B&O loco, so send her to us". No competent museum would give such a proposal the time of day. We can argue that the loco doesn't fit their mission statement, but that's for them to decide; and even if they decide so, I'm sure Erik can cite letter and verse of the AAM codes that states that museums should not wantonly dispose of or sell assets without attempting fair-value trade.

From the perspective of a curator who is paid to administrate the collection, the response to such a demand is straightforward: There are already two Reading T1's in the loco's home turf, both preserved as Reading locos, one owned by a governmental body (and therefore presumably safe) and one privately owned in almost-operable condition on its home rails by a party sympathetic to its history. Meanwhile, the people asking for the loco have no concrete plan, no identified source of funding, nothing to offer in trade, and no place for it to go--in short, nothing but begging that borders on arrogance. In such a circumstance, the B&O Museum is almost duty-bound to reject the overtures.

> Insofar as the claim that it was severely
> damaged in the roundhouse fire, I have no
> first hand knowledge but I do have several
> reports by knowledgeable and respected
> locomotive personel who claim otherwise.

*I've heard reports all over the charts from all sorts of people, both rumor-mongers and people in a worthy position to know. The point is still moot--there are two other operable Reading T1's with no place to go (*not even the owner's own railroad!!!!!!*) Maybe we should save the issue for the 2026 American Freedom Train?

> Gaining an operable C&O Greenbriar was a
> gift from above, without question. As far as
> WM Diesels are concerned, the ex-LIRR FA is
> currently being negotiated for and
> hopefully, will return to it's home rails
> before too long.

*I know, I know. So what ELSE ya got to trade for a T1....... hmmmmmmmmm??


LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

We have BEDT number 12 at the Florida Gulf Coast RR Museum, near Bradenton, FL.

Both the 12 and 13 were built for the Brooklyn Navy Yard. No. 12 was built in 1919 but I don't know about the 13. They are nearly identical locos except that the 12 has welded water tanks.

Kurt, can you supply any information about the use of there engines, when they were sold to BEDT, or if any builders photos or plans exist?



Fla Gulf Coast RR Museum
hrvideo@mindspring.com

> Unfortunately, the only way you will
> probably ever get a photo of BEDT 16
> operating in Brooklyn again is via Adobe
> Photoshop.
Well I can allways dream. I just want to get her running in Riverhead first.

bedt15@aol.com

> We have BEDT number 12 at the Florida Gulf
> Coast RR Museum, near Bradenton, FL.

> Both the 12 and 13 were built for the
> Brooklyn Navy Yard. No. 12 was built in 1919
> but I don't know about the 13. They are
> nearly identical locos except that the 12
> has welded water tanks.

> Kurt, can you supply any information about
> the use of there engines, when they were
> sold to BEDT, or if any builders photos or
> plans exist?
They were used in carfloat service in NYC. They were the last steamers to operate in revenue service on the east coast of the USA. The 12 along with the 16(Riverhead NY, The only BEDT steamer on Long Island) were purchased by two people for a failed tourist operation in Sag Harbor NY, called the The Sag Harbor and Scuttle hole Railroad. Hope this helps.

http://RMLI.org
BEDT15@aol.com

> If you can have a discussion about the
> preservation of historic railway equipment
> in a calm and reasonable manner, then do so.
> Anything else is just counterproductive

Thank you, David. Well put.


eledbetter@rypn.org

> Thank you, David. Well put.

Apology for the momentary lapse into profanity (I was thinking far stronger language, mind you).

Not apologizing for the broad-brush "attack" against the large and seemingly-expanding group of people who harp on the subject of the 2101/AFT 1 ad nauseum like a broken record. To my eye, I gave this bunch of whiners--oops, sorry, critics--constructive criticism and outlined a path that *could*, maybe, somewhere, before the devil's domain freezes over, bring their otherwise-pipe-dream fantasies to reality. That's a lot better than their constantly whining about (okay, highlighting) the status quo--which, indirectly, amounts to character assassination of the B&O Museum, if you think about it.

At least *I* went to them and asked how a repaint would be possible. I'm willing to wager I'm the only one among all those "Give us the 2101" whiners who has done so.

And by the way, don't think for a minute that we haven't seriously plotted a trade for the 2101. Now, if we could just find that blankety-blank B&O EM-1 that's supposedly hiding somewhere......

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

May I remind you T-1's operated into Hagerstown, Maryland on trackage rights over both the Western Maryland and PRR. The 2101 is one of the engines I have a confirmed siting of in Hagerstown. She has a history in Maryland and is quite safe where she is. Until someone comes up with a better plan I am content to see her stay there.

John Bohon

jhbohon@yahoo.com

#12 was purchased by Ron Ziel while he was writing "The Twilight of Steam Locomotives". He actually attempted the purchase with an auto loan. Ron kept her in the Jersey Meadows for years, only occassionally going over to inspect her. She changed ownership, possibly by default, and wound up eventually in Florida.

Jim, what is the operational status of #12?


Aurora7@Juno.com

Sandy, David and I are not objecting to your logic. We're pointing our that your rhetoric is not really in conformity with the style in which we ask posters on the Interchange to comport themselves.

eledbetter@rypn.org

We've got the 12 on display and it was painted last year but it is not in service. Actually, it appears to be in pretty good condition and we hope to have it retored for service in the future. It was last steamed in 1985 by the previous owner.

Fla Gulf Coast RR Museum
hrvideo@mindspring.com

Get LIRR 39 running first; take care of old business before starting something new, guys! The 39 project has dragged on so long now it almost seems like it will never steam again. In the almost 30 years this project has dragged on, countless other locos have returned to operation in almost one-quarter of the time expended.

> Well I can allways dream. I just want to get
> her running in Riverhead first.

> Get LIRR 39 running first; take care of old
> business before starting something new,
> guys! The 39 project has dragged on so long
> now it almost seems like it will never steam
> again. In the almost 30 years this project
> has dragged on, countless other locos have
> returned to operation in almost one-quarter
> of the time expended.

See I am not at the Museum to restore 39 I am there to restore BEDT 16. And until she operates I will not stop because I need money.

bedt15@aol.com