What are the "long-standing environmental justice issues" associated with the Cornell Street yard? Is it just that some people don't like looking at trains?

To cite this as a reason to evict the CMRR from its major yard seems like a bit of a stretch.

Interesting how they ever so casually slip in word "illegal" in front of "rail yard".

Can anyone in the know educate us on the history of the yard, how it came to be, what the site was when the line was still in active service?

Oh and what exactly makes the yard so... "illegal"?

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/general-new ... n-operator

Ulster County rail line concept draws rebuke from legislator, concern from train operator

By Patricia Doxsey, Daily Freeman

Posted: 12/09/14, 5:56 PM EST |


KINGSTON >> Ulster County Executive Michael Hein’s new rail-and-trail plan drew criticism Tuesday from a county lawmaker, who said it doesn’t provide enough track for a scenic railroad to be viable, while the head of the railroad currently using the county-owned tracks tempered his own optimism about the proposal.

“They will not get anybody to bid on a two-mile stretch of track,” said Legislator David Donaldson, chairman of the Legislature’s Railroad Advisory Committee.

“It’s all right for the smaller kiddie rides, but even for the ‘Polar Express,’ it’s really too short,” said Donaldson, D-Kingston, referring to a holiday-themed ride currently being offered by the Catskill Mountain Railroad. “There would be no growth whatsoever. They wouldn’t be able to do any adult train rides.

“I don’t know if this is a red herring, but it won’t work,” Donaldson said of the plan Hein unveiled Monday.

Donaldson said if the county truly is interested in allowing a tourist train to operate out of Uptown Kingston, it has to be able to run to the Glenford Dike, at the eastern tip of the Ashokan Reservoir.

On Monday, Hein announced a plan that would allow a tourist train to run on a 2-mile stretch of track between the Kingston Plaza and Hurley Mountain Road in the town of Ulster.

Hein’s original plan — for a “segmented rail with trail” — called for the a recreational trail stretching from the city of Kingston to the Ashokan Reservoir and a tourist train running from the western end of the reservoir to Phoenicia.

That plan drew significant opposition from train enthusiasts and supporters of the scenic rides, including some county legislators, who decried the planned elimination of the county-owned railroad tracks in the Kingston area and pushed instead for a rail-with-trail concept along much of the former Ulster & Delaware Railroad corridor.

Ernie Hunt, president of the Catskill Mountain Railroad, called Hein’s new plan a “good first step” but said a terminus at the Glenford Dike would be “optimum.”

“By and large, we think this is a very positive development, but we’re still going to be pushing for extending the line further west,” Hunt said.

“The kind of events we want to introduce ... lunch trains and dinner trains require a longer ride,” he said. “When you’re dealing with adults, the expectations of the ride are a little higher, and any adult-themed trains are going to have to have a destination that is worth some time to get to.”

Hunt said that by adding the 5-mile stretch of track from Hurley Mountain Road to the Glenford Dike, which would make a round-trip ride from Kingston about two hours, the railroad would be able to tap into a bigger adult market that attract residents up from New York City and draw corporate business for private parties and other events.

“We believe, in order to do that, the ride needs to be lengthened to the reservoir,” Hunt said.

Hunt said that the train rides out of Kingston Plaza currently end about a quarter-mile past Hurley Mountain Road, a distance that actually is too short for this month’s “Polar Express” rides.

“In order to make ride seem long enough, we had to slow down to five miles an hour,” he said.

County Legislature Minority Leader Ken Ronk said the success of the three children’s rides hosted by the Catskill Mountain Railroad since October — “Thomas the Tank Engine,” the “Great Pumpkin Patch Express” and the “Polar Express” — proves the railroad can operate successfully on the 2-mile track.

“It has worked,” said Ronk, R-Wallkill.

He said he found criticisms of Hein’s new plan by the Catskill Mountain Railroad “disappointing at best.”

“This is the case of the county making a concession based, I think, in part on their success, and they say, ‘Thank you very much for making a concession, we’d like you to come the rest of the way,’” Ronk said.

The Catskill Mountain Railroad, which also offers scenic train rides between Mount Tremper and Phoenicia, has a lease with the county to use the tracks through May 31, 2016.

Hein has said the county will issue “requests for proposals” in an effort to find a train operator to continue after the Catskill Mountain Railroad’s lease ends. The county currently is locked in a legal battle with the railroad over the county’s attempt to evict the railroad for failing to live up to the terms of its lease.

The CMRR has plans to move to a new yard near Kingston Plaza:

http://savetherails.org/wordpress/wp-co ... 042314.pdf

http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/2014/ ... 9Dec14.htm

Hein’s tourism railroad support is a step in the right direction, say lawmakers

KINGSTON – Ulster County Legislator David Donaldson said County Executive Michael Hein’s announcement Monday that he supports leaving the railroad tracks in place between Kingston Plaza and Hurley Mountain Road is a step in the right direction.
Donaldson, who is vice chairman of the legislature and chairman of the Rail Road Advisory Committee, said while the new plan is good, it needs to go five miles further.

In August, Hein pushed for removal of the tracks from Kingston to Phoenicia and replaced with a 14-foot wide trail. That was opposed by Donaldson and fellow legislators Manna Jo Greene, Carl Belfiglio and Mary Wawro.

Hein’s new plan would accommodate both tourism railroad operations and recreational trail development in the City of Kingston. The plan would include an additional section of the county-owned Ulster and Delaware Railroad corridor in Kingston in a future request for proposals for tourism railroad operations.

Donaldson pointed to event trains currently run by Catskill Mountain Rail Road, which expects to sell some 30,000 tickets this year for those leaving Kingston Plaza, generating over $3 million in business and added tax receipts. “Since over 70 percent of the riders came from out of the area, these railroad events put the City of Kingston and Ulster County on the map for thousands of tourists,” he said.

But, Donaldson said the “ability of the railroad to connect to the main line in Kingston is a vital component to the county’s plans to market this asset to any rail road operation when the contract with Catskill Mountain rail road expires in 2016.”

Belfiglio believes the county should develop the railroad “into a world-class year round tourist attraction. This 28 mile corridor is something the taxpayers of Ulster County already own.” He said the county should be marketing it worldwide through its economic development office.

“The extraordinary success of the Thomas the Tank Engine, Peanuts’ Great Pumpkin, and Polar Express events proved what an economic benefit these events will be to Downtown Kingston and the entire county,” said Donaldson. “I want the City of Kingston to see the benefits of the tourism that the Ashokan Reservoir trail plans will attract as well. The train will encourage people to start that experience in Kingston. Otherwise out-of-town tourists will skip Kingston altogether and drive straight to the trail head at the reservoir.”

Mr. Donaldson replying to the smear campaign against him and the CMRR:

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/opinion/201 ... ng-at-best

LETTER: Attack on Ulster County lawmaker was ‘misleading at best’

Posted: 12/20/14

Dear Editor,

William Sheldon’s letter, “County lawmaker needs to serve his constituents, not private railroad,” Dec. 14, 2014, was misleading at best. Claiming, I was the chairman of the Railroad Advisory Committee for many years while deviously working hand-in glove for Catskill Mountain Railroad and, then, claiming I recently resuscitated the Railroad Advisory Committee and assumed chairmanship, is contradictory.

The last chairman of the committee quit when he and members learned through the press that the county initiated an early end to the railroad’s lease. They got the Kingston-to-Phoenicia, trail-only plan the same way. I was not on that committee.

The Legislature recreated the long-standing committee in 2014. I was appointed to serve and chair a few months ago.

Sheldon claims the “experts” state a rail with trail is unworkable. His “experts” work at the pleasure of the executive and were commissioned after the Kingston-to-Phoenicia, trail-only plan was created with trail-only advocates.

“Trail” people, like Kathy Nolan and Chris White, the deputy county planner, further attempt to disrupt Railroad Advisory Committee meetings. White, an “expert” that serves at the executive’s pleasure, has no previous municipal planning experience and his work record prior shows mostly political appointments.

Last year, the “experts” dismissed a Kingston rail with trail. Now, that is the new plan.

In reality, there is no successful two-mile historic railroad. A few more miles and a connection to the main line is needed or it is unsustainable.

I respect Sheldon’s motives as a long-time trail-only advocate, but his attack claiming I do not serve my constituents and are controlled by the railroad is the very type of discourse that has brought us to where we are.

I try to get as much unbiased information as possible before supporting a plan, resolution or taking an action. Blindly accepting “experts” hired to support one side does not fit that charge. We need to work together to reach what is the best use of this corridor for recreation and economic development.

David Donaldson, D-Kingston

Ulster County legislator

Kingston, N.Y.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAUK3u8xkY4&

Pretty good CMRR Polar video, though short. EH

Just some things to read--particularly the following commentary between a trail supporter going by the name AnotherTakeOnIt and a rails with trails man named Michael Helbing, who runs a trail charter or tour business called Metro Trails.

http://www.kingstonx.com/2014/11/11/let ... -bottling/

To all:

2014 has been a year of incredible achievement for the CMRR, even as it continues to struggle to survive. The CMRR increased its ridership from 15,000 to over 40,000 in 2014, and our Kingston operation increased from 5,000 to over 30,000. The CMRR extended its mainline from 209 to Kenco this year, nearly an additional mile, and installed flashers at 209. We also increased our passenger capacity in Kingston from one to three coaches and added an extra passenger flat car. We even now have a back-up engine for Kingston, former RMNE 42.

We ended up achieving all our goals laid out in the CMRR's vision documents published earlier in the year. Thomas the Tank and Polar Express drew unprecedented crowds and visitors to uptown Kingston, at 11,000 and 16,000 respectively.

We have achieved this against overwhelming odds, including litigation on two fronts. Although the City has put our litigation in adjournment for now, the County still has not stopped its efforts to terminate our lease even though there are only 17 months left on it.

Despite this the CMRR is in the best position ever to continue in Kingston and to restore the line west. Business support in Kingston has been overwhelming and there is universal sentiment to let our themed trains continue.

2015 will be a decisive year for the CMRR. Whatever the final outcome, the volunteers of the CMRR in 2014 accomplished as much as anyone could have under incredibly difficult circumstances. A year we will all never forget.

Ernie Hunt
President
CMRR

Thanks for the link!

Hebling has a very good point.

Kingston already has the O&W rail trail that no one uses.

So what was that about "unpermitted"? There's no such thing as a permit for activity on a railroad. Or state highway. Or pipeline. Or power line. Or rail trail.

What they are saying is the operator will be expected to close that yard as a condition of getting a lease. That, they CAN do.

Ownership has its privileges.

First, a "thank you" of appreciation to "Big Ham," for enjoying something I found.

And for further enjoyment, more from Mr. Helbing (scroll down):

http://www.meetup.com/Metrotrails/messa ... #127550648

I clearly missed some thing here. Federal Pre-emption, i.e. The Surface Transportation Board authority (49USC10501 et seq) applies to Common Carrier railroads. My understanding is that the common carrier authority on the line in question was abandoned prior to Ulster County's purchase of of the property. I do not believe that the Catskill Mountain ever applied for or was granted common carrier authority by either the Interstate Commerce Commission or the Surface Transportation Board. If I am wrong about this will somebody who knows better please provide the docket number?

There have further been a number of decisions in recent times, brought about in part by the antics of the Bankrupt of Baltimore and his sidekick, which make it difficult at best to obtain either a Certificate of Public Convenience and Necessity or the more common Board decision granting an Exemption from Regulation, or to claim the benefits thereof if the applicant is unable to function as a common carrier for any number of reasons, including lack of a physical interchange with the General System or a lack of an actual right to operate over the property.

In my experience hiding behind Federal Pre-emption where it does not exist, even if the belief is a good faith mistake, is a recipe for disaster.

GME

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/opinion/201 ... -and-trail

LETTER: A dispassionate look at cost estimates for Ulster County rail and trail

Dear Editor:

There has been a great deal of talk, much of it quite passionate, both for converting the Catskill Mountain Railroad corridor into a trail and for restoring the railroad.

Let’s set the passions aside and look at what some actual numbers might be.

Some of the best information available is from a report by a trail consulting company, Camoin Associates, for converting or rebuilding the segment between Tupper Lake and Lake Placid, a distance of 34 miles. The report projects the following costs:

• Railroad rehabilitation: $320,000 per mile.

• Permanent trail conversion: $440,000 per mile.

• Temporary trail conversion: $550,000 per mile.

The principal difference in the temporary vs. permanent trail conversion is the estimated cost of storing the track material for 10 years. It does not include the cost of reinstalling this material.

The cost of the permanent trail conversion includes a credit for the salvage or resale of track material. This reduces the cost of the trail conversion by about $41,000 per mile, making the actual cost about $481,000 per mile.

How does this work out in Ulster County? Over 38 miles of track, we have 11,013 metric tonnes, at a recent salvage rate of $323.80 per tonne, about $3.56 million. That’s nearly $94,000 per mile, well over Camoin’s estimate of $41,000 per mile, but still only 21 percent of the trail cost.

But there also is the cost of delivery and profit to the scrapper, so you’re looking at maybe a measly 11 percent of your trail cost, in line with what Camoin allowed. Ulster County still would be looking at spending $16.7 million to build this trail.

The trail also would require maintenance. Camoin uses a fairly realistic estimate of $1,500 per mile, a bit higher than the averaged $1,324-per-mile maintenance estimate the railroad has received for the entire 119-mile-long corridor in the Adirondacks.

Ulster County currently isn’t paying anything for maintenance of this corridor and even receives a small rental payment from the railroad. Basically, the county would go from a small positive income to a new expense of $57,000 per year for the 38 miles, not including the cost of conversion or additional expenses such as security.

Now that’s not the only metric we might want to use, and the trail people will rightly claim that we might want to look at what benefits, including economic growth we might get from the trail.

David P. Lubic

Inwood, W.Va.

Ulster County is at it again:

http://www.watershedpost.com/2015/ulste ... in-railroa

Ulster County makes new move toward eviction of Catskill Mountain Railroad
By Julia Reischel
1/16/15 - 5:43 pm

Ulster County is preparing to file more litigation in an attempt to evict the Catskill Mountain Railroad from county-owned train tracks, according to Ernie Hunt, the spokesman for the railroad, and Ulster County Legislator David Donaldson.

Hunt said that the railroad’s lawyers received notice on Tuesday, Jan. 13 that Ulster County would soon appeal a September decision by Ulster County Supreme Court Judge Richard Mott that prevents the county from evicting the railroad.

Donaldson sent a letter to Ulster County Executive Mike Hein on Thursday, Jan. 15 decrying the county's decision to appeal the case, writing that the move was "just more legal maneuvering and a continued waste of County resources and tax dollars."

"To appeal this decision seems to be using the deep pockets of the taxpayers to bleed the [Catskill Mountain Railroad] dry and to assure their successes are few," Dondalson wrote. "Your latest action will just drag out this litigation for several more months. Wouldn’t this money and time be better spent to promote tourism rather than trying to stifle new and successful tourism efforts?"

Ulster County officials did not return multiple calls for comment on Friday, Jan. 16.

It’s the latest salvo in a fight between Ulster County and the Catskill Mountain Railroad that began in June 2013, when Ulster County attempted to oust the tourist railroad from its 25-year lease of the county-owned tracks that run from Kingston into the Catskills.

The county argued that the railroad had defaulted on its lease, which runs to May 2016, by neglecting the train tracks and by maintaining slipshod financial records and rent payments. Hein had hoped to replace the railroad with a pedestrian rail trail.

The railroad filed a lawsuit contesting the county’s eviction, and the county filed its own counter-lawsuit. The two parties have been locked in litigation ever since.

Judge Mott, who is presiding over the case, has repeatedly ruled that he will not allow the county to evict the railroad until all litigation is resolved.

Ulster County is now preparing to appeal Mott’s decision in a higher court, Hunt said.

“From our point of view, this is taking this thing to another level,” he said.

Compromise?

News of a possible appeal came as a surprise to the railroad, because in December, Hein softened his stance towards railroad operations in the city of Kingston.

On Dec. 8, Hein announced a new plan that would allow both rails and trails to coexist within city limits.

In a press release sent out on Dec. 8, Hein cast his new plan as a compromise between rail proponents and trail opponents:

“There are undoubtedly passionate and conflicting opinions with respect to the appropriate use for the County-owned U&D corridor that runs from Kingston to Highmount,” stated County Executive Hein. “While this complex issue has been the source of ongoing and passionate debate between rail and trail advocates recently and for several decades, my administration has continually remained focused on creating a solution that benefits the largest number of Ulster County residents. The plan I am releasing today is consistent with my vision to develop a world-class, interconnected rail trail system connecting the Walkway Over the Hudson to the Ashokan Reservoir while also preserving future tourism railroad operations in the City of Kingston.”

The press release also said that Ulster County would put out a bid for operators of Kingston's tracks once the Catskill Mountain Railroad's lease is up:

The County Executive’s alternate plan in no way predetermines any potential future operator on segments identified for potential railroad use, which will be determined through the RFP (Request for Proposal).

Successful events

As it fights the county in court, the Catskill Mountain Railroad has also launched an ambitious campaign to prove that it is an asset to the region. The railroad held several successful events in the city of Kingston 2014 for children and families, including a Charlie Brown-themed Great Pumpkin Patch excursion, a Thomas the Tank Engine event and Christmas-themed Polar Express ride.

All three events did very well, Hunt said.

“We went from being a $100,000 company to a $900,000 company because of all the events last year,” Hunt said. “But it’s all going to lawyers anyway.”

Hunt estimates that the railroad has spent $340,000 on legal fees in the dispute.

The Catskill Mountain Railroad wants to sit down with Hein and hammer out a settlement, Hunt said. But Hein’s office has refused to meet with railroad officials while the litigation is ongoing, he said.

“Our frustration that we can’t a chance to meet with him and discuss this issue in private,” Hunt said. “There needs to be a meeting, and there needs to be a meaningful meeting to sit down and try to move this forward.”

“After how we’ve performed and how we brought in all the visitors, why can’t we meet with you and discuss things and work out a compromise?” he said, addressing the question to Hein.