Oh no doubt. Sorry, I should have been more specific - I don't consider backing the whole way to Cumberland to be plausible. It's a huge risk for sure. Rather, I assume they would run "push-pull" with a diesel at the opposite end. That's what they did for the photo freight, although they didn't have the diesel on till we got to Frostburg.

As Rick Rowlands brilliantly proposed, a vertical curve on the turntable might solve the problem. I would be uncomfortable seeing that used without a clamping chock, added while the turning movement occurs, in case there was any imperfection of balance and bleed of brakes.

Most Mallet articulateds had some vertical play between the front and rear frames. Using a spherical joint or a horizontal hinge along with the vertical hinge. A few engines like the Big Boy did not have any vertical play in the articulated joint. So how much vertical play has the 1309 have between the two frames?

Thinking about this further...

Probably an inch or more can be removed by progressively dapping the table timbers toward the end of the table, lowering the bottom of the rails slightly below the surface of the ties. Then cut out the 131 RE approach rails, comping down to 100 RA at the edge of the crossing which would lower the height of the approaches by 1 inch at the turntable's edge. That would in effect introduce a vertical curve between the 3 percent grade at the crossing and the edge of the turntable. Couple that with the dapping of the turntable ties and the slight crown to the turntable rails and I think we could almost completely eliminate the sharp angle at the edge of the table. This could be done with a crew in just a few days. Replacing the approach rails would take a day, pulling the table rails, dapping the ties and respiking the rails probably three days.

I'm going back to being a boomer trackworker after April 1. "Have hirail will travel!"

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did the larger articulateds like the 4000s, etc really not have any up/down motion built into the front engine? Seems crazy, I could swear the 4-6-6-4s, NW A, H8 etc did have some vertical flexibility built in.

Kelly, the lesson here is that the Sidewalk Superintendents are not interested in facts when it's a whole lot more fun to issue possible remedies based upon fantasies. You got it now??

Sad but true. Ross Rowland

On the UP, the second type (1942-1944) of Challengers and the Big Boys have horizontal hinges only. The suspension is expected to handle vertical undulations. I understand this was a N&W design for their A class 2-6-6-4's in 1936.

Most other articulateds have horizontal and vertical joints between the engines. Since C&O 1309 was built to a 1923 design, I'm sure it has both horizontal and vertical joints between the engines.

Phil Mulligan

Tender?

At QARR, we needed more water to run a longer distance (18 miles round trip, plus another 5 miles+ for switching), so used the baggage car as a tender. The baggage car housed a HEP diesel genset (for our dinner train), our tools/workshop, and several old fuel oil tanks used for home heating. We cleaned out the tanks, piped them together with PVC pipe, and hooked hoses to the loco. The tanks were filled with a hose through the end door. The Wilmington & Western already had piped the engine for a tender, as they regularly used a tender with it. We ran forward using the "tender", and then ran around the train and used the engine tanks running backwards. We doubled the water capacity of the engine for about $100 and a few trips begging for scrap tanks and a trip to the hardware store.

Problem solved.....ditch the tender when running backwards............

You’d think the railroad, who have run several test trips and now even revenue runs, might know more about the capabilities of their locomotive and track more so than random people wandering around the place or sitting at their computers.

What a crazy concept that would be.

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I'm just another voice in the peanut gallery, but since this discussion has turned to 1309 and the turntable I figure this article from 2018 is worth another read:

https://www.times-news.com/news/local_n ... 0b7fc.html

Especially since it contains this tidbit of information:

The information I was given during the 2018 audit was from Gary B., who had measured the vertical tolerances on the front engine vs. the vertical curve going into the turntable, and was concerned enough to recommend not turning it. The secondary concern was shifting the locomotive weight teetering almost entirely on the lead set of drivers on the second engine during that move, something it was not intended to do. So this isn't sidewalk superintendent, it's the guy that did the rebuilding. Like I said, I have to respect that.

I do think there's a lot of possible alternatives here. And no, 734 was flexible enough to regularly mount on and off the table without much complaint. Did it all the time.

At some point they'll probably actually test 1309 away from prying eyes here and see how it reacts, and that will settle the debate, but it's still a pretty ugly looking kinked curve with a vertical drop at the top. It's an odd railroad, split between the epic engineering of WM with the 1880's C&P stuck at the top into Frostburg.

It's also a financial or crew resource hit, because you're running two crews every train, one for 1309 and the other for the diesel at the rear. That does give you a dynamic brake though. One of the upgrades on 1309 was adding a 26L system, so that helps too.

Perhaps this is an unwelcome response, but I have an Idea. I have taken the trip a few years ago so I have a picture in mind. At Conrail, I did design facilities....

Two crossovers could be added. After the disembarkation, the engine shoves back to clear the x-over. Then it gets onto the parallel track. At some point, there is a new switch and a third track headed to the turntable... Yes, it will be nasty with changing the road crossing...but I have heard that is a way to reduce the horizontal approach curve. Then the gradient can be changed for the vertical curve. After the engine is turned, it returns to the parallel track and depending on how far away the start of the siding is, another x-over could be installed. In any case a diesel rear helper could also be run-around the train at the same time.... but you could do this with a single engine and crew.

Just leave existing track as it is....don't mess with it. I don't like the idea of shimming and making the turntable not level...It would wear unevenly. The last thing that anyone should do is to make equipment perform at something that the are not designed to do.

BTW, when running the test train to Beacon Park, we had to turn 3 - 6 axles on the loop track... We had it double spiked and I helped the road foreman take a road switcher and pull the train around...for the very first time... After that, we did it with the road power. We were testing SD-50's... That was not designed for 6-axles and we were lucky...but were also testing on-board wheel flange lubricators.

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