The crane at Shokan came up by rail in 1987. It went two miles further west to the partial washout at Butternut Cove, but no further. At that time it could have crossed the Boiceville Trestle. Butternut Cove, which is passable by light maintenance equipment, has been the main holdup in moving full-sized equipment on the line.

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=115034

EH

I want to make a parallel to all this. The original Norfolk Southern ran an interurbanish/streetcar line around the bay, but as time went this dissappeared as did the original NS. The electric NS was very curious and I may model some half freelanced version in HO. But the City of Norfolk decided to revamp the bay service with light rail, and guess what, the people started riding it and they were surprised with the ridership.

Some good news:

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=231248

Repaved CMRR Crossing at Route 28a

In anticipation of the restoration of service on the CMRR, Ulster county recently repaved the crossing at Route 28a at MP 8.33.

Photographed by John Marino, June 29, 2016.
Added to the photo archive by Ernest Hunt, June 29, 2016.

That is some good news. So how far west, exactly, will CMRR be permitted to operate? Past Basin Rd? Within eyesight of the reservoir? How much trackwork needs to be completed to offer regular excursions to the reservoir?

Rob Gardner

8.33 is the crossing of 28A, and there's also an historical house under restoration at that spot. It is one of the few spots where there's room for a little parking, a boarding platform, etc. and also for a special event location. It gives you a full two miles more to run on than what was there before in 2016. The rail with trail compromise was firm to 8.33, above that, it was rail with trail but more study needed on how to do it.

Above 8.33, the railroad crosses over a significant fill over a wetland that is high, narrow, and 2700' long. 28A parallels it but goes down into the valley and has about 400' at the bottom that is actually 'wet' and would have to be bridged. There needs to be more study of how to do a parallel trail here as these are high-quality wetlands on both sides, and the railroad fill is both narrow and steep. Even putting a 12' trail on the fill WITHOUT a track would require either lowering it through excavation or widening it at the top. Another significant cost is 'guard rail' for the trail as it is a steep drop-off down into the wetland - over a mile of guard rail needs to be constructed if it is done up on the fill. Those factors make it desirable to look at an alternative trail location/design as well. Expensive for everybody. 28A really doesn't have a good shoulder, either.

On the other side of the fill, the original ROW splits off due west, and the 1913 relocation ROW cuts northwest. The stone cuts are significantly wider here to allow a full trail beside the track if the track was relocated to either side. That takes you to milepost 10/Basin Rd., which is right on the property line with NYCDEP. Glenford Dike is MP 11. At this time there is no 'rail with trail' plan of any kind within NYCDEP lands - its one or the other, but the trail is funded and in design.

Trail-only design is underway right now from the parking area at West Hurley (which was the relocated railroad station area in 1913) west. The dike itself was originally designed with a 10' walkway, a stone separation wall ("Chinese wall"), and the railroad ROW - the original design documents exist to prove it. One complication exists that NYCDEP is apparently planning to do another major 'leakproof' exercise on the reservoir as they think they are still loosing a lot of water - and the track is in the way of what sounds like a second round of concrete-pumping into the dike walls and working on the dike sides.

You have to also understand that recreational use of the reservoir is extremely limited to fishing with a permit, and even a gasoline engine is barred. You really have to look at this to understand just how protective NYCDEP really is - right down to requiring steam cleaning, isolated storage, regulating bait, waders, and what a fishing boat is made of. http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/pdf/recrules/recrules.pdf This is unlike anything you've seen anywhere else.
So nobody should be particularly shocked how much they fear a train of any kind, even if many of the concerns could be effectively mitigated.

Following up on Randy Gustafson's post above, the NYCDEP's stance in Ulster County seems very inconsistent when compared with the proximity of the Muscoot Reservoir to the ex-NYC Harlem Division. See this map of Katonah, NY.

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Katona ... 4137?hl=en

If you follow the railroad north from Katonah, the railroad crosses the Muscoot reservoir on a bridge, and then runs right next to it, and farther north, next to waterways connected to the Croton Falls Reservoir, off and on, for miles. The Harlem Division is a busy commuter line with a great deal more traffic than the line in Ulster County will probably ever have.

So how come they are all up tight about the U&D corridor but they don't seem to worry about the Harlem corridor which to my mind has just as much if not more potential for polluting the water? Is it because the Harlem is now electric? (For many years when the reservoir was there, the Harlem was of course steam and then diesel, not to mention the fact that at one time coach toilets used to empty directly onto the tracks).

Most likely because there is not much they can do about the location of the commuter line, but there IS something they could do about a little preservation railway in Ulster County, and they've just done it.

The heck with non-retention toilets... the main reason not to drink water was pointed out by W.C Fields years ago... but now that the EPA is involved, any reason has long since departed.

This seems to be more about preventing the introduction of an invasive species like the Zebra mussel, and I can understand their concern about that.

Michael Helbing is a trail promoter who is also a friend of the Catskill Mountain Railroad. He now has a photo album on his Metrotrails Facebook page of much of the railroad, taken on several hikes over the line. It has, for now, 867 images! For most of the route, there's plenty of room for both.

https://www.facebook.com/metrotrails/ph ... 0691113135

Mr. Helbing also notes that the Federal people have this to say about a trail and ADA compliance:

They flooded this area to make the reservoir, a whole community was moved out and destroyed. Any descriptions about the reservoir is kinda -hohum- they made the reservoir..

And then what about building this trail presumeably, they will have to rumble all kinds construction trucks to build it and they seem to be paranoid about a train. In the end if they put the trail end and remove the rail it makes me tend to think someone is going "HAHA fooled you"

The rail line has existed in parallel to the reservoir without concern about pollution for a..Loooong ..time. And everybody tends to ignore all the cars/trucks. Its a non-issue blown out of proportion.

Someone is just playing politics being anti-railroad making it a target for an excuse.

Saturday June 25th

On Saturday, Art Vogel and Jeff Otto led a joint ESRM/CMRR team that included Tom Whyte, Dave Heick and Al Johnson and continued working on the new ESRM siding in Phoenicia.

The north rail was completely spiked up to the car barn and the south rail was fully installed and bolted. The siding should be completed next weekend.

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=231236

John Prestopino worked on weed-wacking the CMRR yard.

Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR

Saturday, July 2nd

Art Vogel and Jeff Otto let a joint ESRM/CMRR crew working on the new ESRM siding at Phoenicia. They were joined by Al Johnson, Tom Whyte and Dave Heick. Trackwork is nearing completion:

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=231331


Sunday, July 3rd

Walt Otto led a crew working on coach 2949 in Kinston and was joined by Dave Hilliard, Ed Winstanley, John Prestopino, and newcomer Steve Stanton. They painted the plywood floor in #2949, painted some under-car parts, and installed the refurbished door latch on #2949.


Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR

Saturday, July 9th

Art Vogel and Jeff Otto led a joint ESRM/CMRR crew working on the new ESRM siding at Phoenicia. They were joined by Al Johnson and Dave Heick. Art also did equipment repairs.


Sunday July 10th

Walt Otto led a crew working on coach 2949 in Kingston and was joined by Dave Hilliard, John Prestopino, John Prestopino, and newcomer Steve Stanton. They painted the plywood floor in #2949, painted some under-car parts and step-boxes, and installed door latches. Ernie Klopping and Al Schoessow started the generator on the 2911.


Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR

Saturday, July 16th

Art Vogel and Jeff Otto let a joint ESRM/CMRR crew working on the new ESRM siding at Phoenicia. They were joined by Al Johnson, and Dave Heick. Art also worked on piping for the 273 air brakes.

George and Harrison Balduf as well as Jordan Torregrossa weed-wacked the yard in PA from Bridge street to the section house in Phoenicia.

Vince Guido and Tom White picked up the caboose frame at Shokan and the yellow cart and took them to Phoenicia.

Walt Otto led a crew working on coach 2949 in Kingston and was joined by Russ Hallock and Ed Winstanley. They painted the plywood floor in #2949, painted some under-car parts, and reconfigured door latches.


Sunday, July 17th

24 volunteers took the rules class, and 21 of 24 passed.


Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR

"Departures from specific accessibility guidelines are permitted for any portion of the trail where compliance would:
- cause substantial harm to cultural, historic, religious, or significant natural features or characteristics;
- substantially alter the nature of the setting or the purpose;
- require construction methods or materials that are prohibited by Federal, State, or local regulations or statutes;
- not be feasible due to terrain or the prevailing construction practices."

Ah, that's the crux of it. At least in NY, the study research we did seemed to point squarely at the FwHA review of NYDOT "design departures" and even NYDOT felt that FwHA had been heavy-handed at times. One specific instance was a request to go to 9' width through a limited wetland area on an accessible-trail; according to NYDOT, that design was denied. The NYDOT trail review designer I spoke to was downright frustrated, and this had nothing at all to do with a railroad issue in any way. My impression was that this kind of impasse was at the very heart of the 'rail with trail' issues in NY. If it gets branded/funded as an "accessible trail", don't look for a lot of wiggle room, at least in NY.

Particularly with rail/trail separation and barriers, AASHTO has no firm design standards and defers to 'expert review and experience'. So this kind of review process of "departures" becomes the entire issue for situations like this. And, of course, if you're not federally-funded for your trail, or you call it "recreational" instead of "Accessible", there's a whole lot more wiggle room in design. The proposed rail with trail project alongside the NWP in northern California had to make all kinds of design departures due to massive washouts/landslides and CalDOT seemed to at least tacitly approve of that situation.