"Show me the money". It is a scary thought. If negotiations go fast and furious, especially if the property has to be dispositioned by a legal authority, it may go to the highest bidder. Knowing the casino "hangers" are out there, it could be grave for the ultimate destiny of the locomotive. I sense the Las Vegas mentality is, she would be strictly "eye candy". Their whole philosophy is shock and awe and who can be the most outrageous to draw more customers in for the moment. Hanging 200+ tons would likely be done at start of construction just above ground floor and construct the building on up from there. Once its gets old, demolition the Casino. They even make a performance out of the demolition! We have seen it on the news. Do you think they would bother pulling her out before they drop the entire building on her....no way. Its only money and iron to them. Maker her into rebar or razor blades, use the scrap price to build another casino even more outrageous. I really hope someone is careful here or even bothers to care.

I recall seeing the C&O Alleghany 2-6-6-6 built into the shopping mall at Baltimore. She filled the mall.....very impressive. What an immense piece of machinery! Eventually she was pulled out and moved to the B&O Museum which was right beside the mall. Fortunately the mall was one story and she was on the ground.

The only place on earth more outrageous than Las Vegas is Dubai. Dubai makes Las Vegas look like Romper Room. Hopefully they are too busy building high rise towers to make even more money versus trying to hang locomotives from the ceiling!

I hope she comes back to anthracite country.


Regards,

Randy Musselman

How important is this subject to those that view this message board??

Switch to flat view and look at the number of views on this post. Since Ross first posted, there have been over 8,379 views on the subject of the 2100 in just 2 days.

Compare this to 10,415 views on the NS Executive F's in 55 days since that post started.

Are we steam starved or what??

Regards,

Randy Musselman

just looking to fill in the blanks.........
all I can remember reading about the 2100 is that it was in storage one place or another, or for sale after it's resto. I can't remember seeing where she ran untill she went out west. So wht does it need so much work on her running gear?
thanks!

The reason it needs so much work now after just one season of limited running is IMHO- a. the rube goldberg oil firing set-up was done very poorly and caused wide fluctuations in the boiler pressure which is extremely hard on the boiler,b. she operated on gradients up to 3.5% which when combined with the ineffective firing system were very hard on the machine,c. as the old saying goes "she was rid hard and put away wet!!!".
As someone posted above let's all hope someone comes forward with both the recources and the love needed to put her back together right and operate her appropriately???
Assuming the creditors auction her off (the most likely eventual outcome) it's of course impossible to say who might show up-let's hope it's not a ceiling hanger!!! Ross Rowland

There is apparently at least one bearing that has been running hot. Someone formerly with the OC told me that it's been like that from the get-go. I was there for the five test runs on the W&W and the run from Rook yard to Brewster on the WLE. I certainly don't remember of any bearing problems then. She was also run a couple times on the OC, but I wasn't there for that.

HOLY CRAP Ross, hang 614 from the freaking ceiling??? Seriously, did they even tell you how'd they accomplish that even if you had intended to sell it to them? I'm trying to figure out the engineering behind something like that. Anyplace else in the US I'd say not bloody likely. But Vegas? Shoot, anything goes there!

Good call Ross. I'd rather it become a forever static exhibit at the local good old boys NRHS chapter backlot/"museum" than hanging from the rafters at a Vegas casino. Sounds like you would, too, if only given those two options...

Yes, they shared their drawings/plans with us in an attempt to convince us that it would be done in "good taste" and would serve to honor the 614 and all her sisters in the service of the nation over the Century plus of steam history.
She was to be suspended from overhead in an entrance atrium which had a ceiling height of 165 ft.. 614 would be hidden behind trap doors and several times an hour the doors would open (to the sound of her whistle) and down she would come with her running gear turning, lights on and whistle blowing (with 200 lbs. live steam from an on board propane fired mini-boiler) and would swivel a full 360 degrees so no matter where you stood in the grand atrium you'd get to see her from all angles. After 2 full 360 degree revolutions she'd return up through the ceiling and the trap doors would close (much like an airplanes landing gear retracting).
The whole extravaganza was to be suspended from super strong bridge cables so painted that with the special effect lighting you'd think the engine was levitating. Actually very clever.
614 was their engine of interest as part of their hype was built around the fact that she is the last commercially built 4-8-4 in America yada yada etc.
When we said no thanks we suggested several other candidates but I believe at about that time the big money boys behind it shifted gears and decided to build the whole place based on an ancient Egyptian theme???
FYI the whole 614 hanging exhibit was budgeted at $17 million dollars. That's to build the hanging system, lighting,special effects etc. I believe at that time the whole Casino project had a build budget of $ 2.4 BILLION dollars!!!!
I'm glad we said no too!
Ross Rowland

Wasn't there an early Steamtown proposal that would have had the locomotives on a turntable covered by a canopy, being turned repeatedly in the middle of a circle of bleachers while a troupe of mimes did "interpretive" dances around them?

MX

The most amazing thing about the 614 proposal is that the words "good taste" were used by Vegas casino people.

No matter what else may happen with/to 614, Ross deserves lots of credit for turning THAT down.

> She was to be suspended from overhead in an entrance
> atrium which had a ceiling height of 165 ft.. 614 would be
> hidden behind trap doors and several times an hour the doors
> would open (to the sound of her whistle) and down she would
> come with her running gear turning, lights on and whistle
> blowing (with 200 lbs. live steam from an on board propane
> fired mini-boiler) and would swivel a full 360 degrees

What were they smoking?

Assuming you could engineer this flying turntable, and that OSHA etc would actually approve it, just what response did they think they'd get?

Can you imagine your reaction if you saw the 614 descending from the ceiling on cables? I know what mind would be, I'd run like hell, figuring the whole monstrosity would collapse any second!

I also think they general public would have a similiar reaction to something that large floating above them.

You don't know the "general" public that well. Why do you think we have an insurance crisis?

The gamblers would probably think it was some kind of fiberglass fake (which actually would've been a better - and cheaper - idea for the casino). When I worked on the RR at Cedar Point, more than one patron came up to us and asked if the antique steam loco we were operating acutally had a gasoline engine in it. They probably had seen a number of the smaller "C.P. Huntington" fake steamers at smaller parks. Probably most of those here who work around or volunteer on a steam operation have similar stories to tell.

> They probably had seen a number of the smaller
> "C.P. Huntington" fake steamers

Or maybe one of the diesel hydraulic "used to be a real steam loco..." abominations that they like to run at Six Flags

I had not heard the story that mxdata posts but I can say that I (and many others) lobbyed the first Steamtown Superintendant (Dr. Latcher) to install a 100 ft. turntable not the 85 ft. one he was determined to put in.
We did our darndest to explain to him the the 85 ft. table would make the roundhouse unuseable by any visiting 4-8-4's but he insisted that when they rehabbed the site they found the old retaining wall and it was for an 85 footer, and therefore to be "historically correct" they would put the 85 footer in. A surplus 100 footer was offerred as a donation by the estate of the Erie-Lackawanna and was (and still is??) located right down the road in Binghamton NY but no, he insisted on custom building a "new" 85 footer at a cost of $6 million dollars-yes $6 million dollars.
Despite our best efforts he wouldn't listen and the rest is history. Anytime a 4-8-4 comes calling one must go through the arduous task of seperating engine and tender in order to get in/out of the house. What a shame.
Only the gummit could do that!
Ross Rowland

May I suggest that a frugal contractor could have rehabilitated the 100 ft Erie table and increased the I.D. of the pit wall for $6 million? Perhaps a real world example is the table installation recently completed in Altoona. I am curious what their bill was? (Minus any structures of course.)

When the Milwaukee 261 came to Steamtown for the grand opening, I believe they were able to run her straight across the table into one stall but of course she did not fit in the stall! If I recall, her bumb stuck out of the house maybe 20 feet?

Cheers!

Randy Musselman