[img][img]http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3779/nycdeadlinebereays0.jpg[/img]
I have this photo from my grandfather of a deadline in Berea,Ohio. He marked on the back that it was taken in May of 1956. The engines are from the front 5493,1877,5415,5389,3102,5375,5371 and 3126. I don't know how relevant this is to your discussion but thought you might find it of interest.[/img]

Many thanks for the great photo from Berea OH! I think the number 5493 is a typo - according to my memory, there were no NYC Hudsons numbered that high. I can´t check right now, but I believe the highest-numbered were the ex-B&A Hudsons in the 5470s.

Bill Yoder in Germany

You are correct on the typo. I found another picture and it is marked as the 5433.

The really sad thing is that the 5433 (and the others) still look in good shape. Too bad that some city along the NYC didn't come to the railroad at that time with a request for an old steam engine for their park. Possible scenario:

NYC official - "Toledo, Ohio has been putting the pressure on for one of our old steam engines and the old man has finally had enough of their moaning and said to give them a damn engine! Ya got anything down there?"

Division superintendent - "Well I got some on a siding down at Berea."

Official - "Do it!"

Thus:

Super - "Grab an engine off the line at Berea. We're going to put it in a park in Toledo."

Yardmaster - "You want me to pick out a good one?"

Super - "Just grab the first damn one off the line. I don't care if it's a good one or not; it sure the hell ain't going anywhere! And don't spend any more time on it than is necessary!"

YM - "Okay."

And thus the first engine in the line at Berea, Hudson #5433, ended up in Toledo's Washington Park.

In reality of course, I do not know if Toledo even HAS a park named Washington. And the bigwigs in Toledo (or other NYC towns) apparently never asked for an engine. But...it sure would have been nice if something like this HAD happened!

Les

Most towns didnt ask. Perlman would have
said "NO!" if they did.

The L2 was the lucky break. The L3 was a wonderful
accident. The L3 is pretty representative of modern NYC
steam.

They are surely better than none.

5433 in that line caught my eye--- yes it did look pretty good. And notice it had the original smaller tender, where almost all the other J-3s had the big pedestal tank by the 1950s.

5433 was cleaned and painted at Harmon for exhibit at GCT in New York in September 1953. This was part of the City's 300th anniversary celebrations. That was just a month after the last active steam locomotive was dispatched from Harmon-- S-1 4-8-4 #6013.

5433 was completely empty and drained (water, sand, coal) to get the weight down enough to go over the Park Avenue Viaduct. The trailer truck had to be jacked up and "swung" to clear some of the tight spots in the Terminal trackage. And the original type tender was applied in place of the PT tank.

I have heard the following a number of times, from sources I consider to be reliable:

5433 was intended to be set aside for preservation; Perlman did not become NYC's President until the following spring (1954). 5433 was later stored at the old Selkirk Yard roundhouse. There was a "clerical error" and 2933 (the L2 Mohawk) wound up being substituted for 5433, which went west to meet her fate on the Big Four. 2933 laid at Selkirk until 1959, when it was given to St. Louis.

Sounds plausible to me; can any more light be shed on this, or is it all simply lost to history?

Howard P.
MP 23 on the Harlem Division (WP)

Howard -

Your note brings up some interesting questions:

1. Was the 5433 operated after the exhibition at Grand Central in September 1953? She made it out to Ohio so that may be a dumb question, but....if she WAS put back in operation, why then didn't they put her PT tender back on?

2. IF 5433 was supposed to be set aside for preservation and a "clerical error" eventually led to her being scrapped, WHERE was she supposed to be preserved? At NMOT in St. Louis? At some other location? What do these "reliable sources" say about that?

3. And finally, we know #5433 was on the Berea dead line in May of `56 but does anyone know when the J3 was actually scrapped? David's book mentions that the 5433 was scrapped in April of that year, and yet here she was still around in May. As David mentioned, the April date might be when she was stricken from the roster (and the white line put through her numbers), but it would be nice to know just when she met the torch.

Les

Here is another picture of the 5433.[img][img]http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9536/nyc5433rj5.jpg[/img]
By eshro[/img]

Yes, yes! Because of the small tender, I was guessing it to be the 5433! My Dad has two photos of 5433 on a local at Goshen IN. The photos have Feb. 56 written on the side by the film developer. So the photos were taken in 1-56 or 2-56.

Bill Yoder

That brings tears to my eyes. I saw them run as a youngster and can't believe we have not one example extant today.