Western Maryland 202 Restoration

simulatortrain · **Joined:** Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:18 pm **Posts:** 8

John Bohon wrote:

This thread started because a young man excited about restoring a steam locomotive made some mistakes in his post. Like most other new commers to RyPN he probably had little clue this site was different from Trainorders in the sense that there are a lot of people here with a lot of experience in this industry. What he got for his efforts was jumped on like a dead chicken during feeding time at the alligator farm. Fortunately a few tried to steer him in the right direction while others took their usual position as the resident smart ass. How many people, new and experienced, have we driven off with this negative approach?

I first read a post similar to this one on a WM site a couple of years ago. That post was from Alex. I came back to him with some of the tough questions you guys ask every time a new guy from the 202 group finds RyPN and found Alex had done some research and knew some of the answers. If he did not know something he was not afraid to ask somebody. I also was careful to tell Alex in that first message I was not trying to discourage him but some serious issues needed to be addressed. Being so young the guys in Hagerstown remind me of myself 35 years ago when I was the only volunteer doing anything to the 202.

What this group has done in the park is impressive. The 202 and other equipment in the park display looks much better than it has in many years, possibly ever. Each year they make a little more progress. They care for the 202 very carefully. Much of the core of the group is very young and still learning. They also make mistakes, mostly from lack of knowlege. On the plus side they have enlisted the help of steam people who did the usual preliminary testing and found nothing obvious preventing a relatively easy restoration to service. Frankly, I can think of a lot of organizations that would love to have a bunch of young guys who make some mistakes but have the energy and enthusiasm old farts like myself once had.

This issue reminds me of a compliment I got from my first boss on the railroad who was talking to somebody about me and my young age. My boss told the guy I was young, not stupid. Alex and the other guys in Hagerstown fall under the same catagory as do many others trying to get a start in this industry. As far as internet sites go it is my opinion that RyPN is exactly where these people should be. I hope Adam will stay here at RyPN but I could not blame him if he never looks at the site again. We were all in their position at some point in the past but we did not have the internet negativity experts to drive us off. I think we need to get our act together as an industry and do more to attract young people and I think changing the way we greet new people here at RyPN can be a small part of that change. I for one will let the moderators decide who is real and who is spam. I have difficulty enough turning my computer on and off to attempt that job. Besides, the moderators seem to be handling the job pretty well.

John Bohon

I think I'll stay, now that I've made myself look like an idiot (it's happened before, I'll get over it.) I don't think everybody helping is clear on the facts, Alex, because I know Aaron and Shawn told me some of this stuff that I posted here. I may have jumped the gun on some of this stuff, but the people that told me this told me it as though it was facts and I believed they knew what they were talking about. I just want to see this locomotive run so badly.

tomgears · **Posted:** Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:17 pm

Adam, I am sorry if I came down on you after your initial post. You have to understand that we have some posts here by "new" people who were really someone with multiply internet personality issues. It is great to see that new people are out there and willing to get dirty in the name of preservation. I would love to see her run just as much as the next guy, I have been visiting her since the 80's when I was a teenage steam fanatic.

Back in the good ole days you would be able to find an engine like 202 give her a tube job and do some minor repairs and find a railroad willing to host excursions. Those days are gone, maybe forever. Nevertheless there are guys all over the world fixing up old steam engines and trying to make a go of running a few excursions. I'm sure that the whole 50 mile from Hagerstown stipulation is a non-issue today. If you guys got Hagerstown on board you might have a shot at running her one some shortlines/tourist railroads in the region. Running out of Hagerstown is going to be a tough nut to crack. The excursions using MARC equipment were really nice but they have not run in years. I'll always remember riding to New Oxford and then getting a ride to Tommy Gilbert's hobby shop to buy HO trains. I would buy a ticket in a minute on any excursion out of Hagerstown.

robertmacdowell · **Posted:** Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:22 pm

toober wrote:

[Well, a tiny number of dreams have a way of becoming reality. Most end up in the sewer.

If only that were so. Last I looked we had way more restored steam engines than we have opportunities to run them.

As for the list of depressing examples of this, I'd point out -- it makes all the difference in the world to be in a state with a healthy network of shortlines. That's the secret of 1225's success. I'm warm on 202 because it has the same advantage - West Virginia has a lovely network of state-supported shortlines.

Frisco1522 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:27 pm

Never say never. When work started on the 1522, there were no agreements made with any railroads, just hoping and dreaming. Times are different now, but get your ducks in a row, organize, raise funds and go for it.
I'm disappointed in some of the replies I see on this board.
I never consider a thread has run it's course until a certain member makes his snarky comment to put his stamp of sarcasm on it. Of course, it's hard for him to be humble, being the world's greatest authority on nearly everything.
I'll let everyone draw their own conclusion as to who it is.

ns2110 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:00 am

I agree with Frisco1522. I agree that ducks should be lined up and everything done to spec but I still disagree that the railfan community bashes each other. Aren't we all working for the same common goal whether it be a cosmetic or operational restoration?

PaulWWoodring · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:10 pm

Seriously, good luck with the 202. I've stood in her presence on several occasions and find her to be a very attractive locomotive. I think your biggest problem is probably the movers and shakers in Hagerstown. They don't seem concerned with preserving their very rich railroad heritage. It wasn't too many years ago they sabotaged a strong effort to preserve the WM roundhouse in favor of a road project. Now the turntable is in Ohio (at least it will be used and get some TLC). Most of us are cynical because we've had our hearts stomped on and broken more times than we'd care to remember (now I sound like a bad country song).

Same problem plagues my hometown, Akron, OH. They've done a really great job obliterating most of the town's railroad heritage. Now, there is talk afoot that the Glob That Ate Akron, i. e. The University of Akron, is planning on tearing down one of the last prominent artifacts of that heritage, Akron Union Station. Currently used as the Continuing Education Center for the C&T college. They want to build a new law school on the site. I really thought that it's current use would save it for my lifetime anyway.

Akron Union Station was one of the last modern small city stations built in the U. S. I believe it opened around 1947, and was used as a train station up until Amtrak Day One. The last scheduled passenger train to stop there was the Eastbound Capitol Ltd., on May 1, 1971 in the wee hours of the morning. Originally shared by the B&O and Pennsy, it soon became B&O only, when Pennsy ended their branch line service to Akron. When it was decided that the original Union Station would be replaced, the Erie/Erie-Lackawanna chose to build it's own small station on the other side of the tracks a block further South. That station was torn down in favor of a bank around 2000.

If Akron U gets it's way, that will only leave a couple of locomotive servicing artifacts (a coaling tower at the CSX Akron yard, and the concrete base of what must have been a truly huge Erie water tower off Kenmore Blvd. in the far SW corner of town), the former AC&Y office building on E. Exchange St., the train shed for the Northern Ohio Traction & Light station at the N. end of Main St. (now a parking lot for the county welfare office) and the car barns for Akron Transit (used by Akron Metro for buses).

Previously, UofA tore down the PRR interlocking tower (JO) downtown, supposedly to make way for a new building that has yet to be built, nearly 10 years later. We have no rolling stock artifacts or locomotives from the area on display. All the stuff that was at Quaker Square was from the Mack Lowry collection, and was from other parts of the country.

Like I said, good luck with the 202. I'd like to be there for the first trip.

firefighter25dfd · **Joined:** Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:52 pm **Posts:** 89

Might I suggest to your group a web site with a mission statement and goals for the project. Also I think you need a communications officer like we have at the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Soicety (Kelly Lynch). Our communications officer publishes the society newsletter, maintains our websites, and handles ALL press releases for the public. This position has proven to be a beneficial position in our society!

Dave · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:51 pm

If you combine a well thought out, practical plan with the youthful enthusiasm you so credibly display, you will gain credibility and a broad base of support - if enough people also believe in your enthusiasm. Enthusiasm without a plan that makes sense and is shared effectively comes across as a negative to the hard nosed, cynical business people and (even worse) politicians you will need to share your vision. FWIW I'd soft-pedal the running idea, concentrating on a first-class cosmetic restoration, with the addition of whatever work is rationally "easier to do while she's stripped down" for the potential future consideration of operation. Sounds smart and defuses a lot of grenades.......

BTW, the clock starts ticking when the first tube is rolled in - but tube jobs can be done without removing the jacket or anything much besides front end appliances, so no sense doing that until the potential for operation becomes a reality. You can do all the calculations and other necessary repairs now while it's convenient, and verify them in the future from within the boiler.

Cut us some slack - if you survive, you will be a crusty old fart some day too.

dave

John Bohon · **Joined:** Sun Aug 29, 2004 1:04 pm **Posts:** 625

For the record they did the cosmetic restoration 2 years ago. The 202 looks great. They are now working on the caboose collection around the engine. Every park locomotive should have the attention the 202 is receiving. In that respect the 202 is a very lucky locomotive.

John Bohon

Rob Gardner · **Joined:** Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:50 pm **Posts:** 576

Alex, I might have missed something. I've seen mention of some "things" that weren't done right while the private individual "owned" and worked on the engine. Were these boiler related? Have they been corrected since then or do those things still need to be addressed?

Rob Gardner

Txhighballer · **Joined:** Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:49 am **Posts:** 773

Hang in there Adam...most of us were just like you in the beginning,and experience has hardened some of us. You have the makings of a good beginning,just keep on plugging. You'll be surprised at what happens when you just keep going.Most of us who come here have many varied experiences and I am offering you an open invitation to PM me if you have any questions. Good luck and stay in touch.

simulatortrain · **Joined:** Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:18 pm **Posts:** 8

Rob Gardner wrote:

Alex, I might have missed something. I've seen mention of some "things" that weren't done right while the private individual "owned" and worked on the engine. Were these boiler related? Have they been corrected since then or do those things still need to be addressed?

Rob Gardner

He burnt trash in the firebox for one thing.

alcoguy1 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:15 pm

We do have a website.

http://sites.google.com/site/westernmaryland202/

Keep checking back on the site. Im going to include more pics of 202 and the cabooses, as well as updates and news.

As far as what damage was done to the boiler itself, he replaced some staybolts with the wrong material. He also removed several staybolts in the throat sheet, ground the metal down to thin, and pluged the holes. That is the only "permanent" damage I can think of. Im sure if and when we tear her down we'll find more stuff. Everything else was pretty much cosmetic. Like Adam mentioned, he also replaced the firebrick with the wrong kind and burned his trash in there. We removed the cracked up fire brick when we did the cosmetic resto. I think he also may have messed with the oil nozzle. I've never been in the firebox of another oil burning locomotive, so Im not sure how that is supposed to be set up yet.

Somebody said something about including pix, so I included some in the firebox when it was my turn at chiseling out, and cleaning up the old firebricks. Not the best pix ever, but it was pretty crappy in there. Whats nice about the museum in the park is we work on 202 with almost all original WM tools!

-Alex Haines

ps: I hope these pix post, they're the first ones i've posted on RyPN.

Mgoldman · **Posted:** Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:19 pm

And finally, some pics of the rarely photographed engine taken June 24th, 2010:

Good timing on the way back from the Potomac - a nice cloudy yet blue sky day and a small heaping of Photoshop to bring out some of the details of this remarkable engine sitting under it's protective canopy.

What a beauty!

WM K-2 Pacific #202 : 3/4 view

WM K-2 Pacific #202 : Head-on view

/Mitch

softwerkslex · **Posted:** Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:50 pm

Why did the Western Maryland have an oil burner?