Still, not an impossibility. Considering we are only looking at a cosmetic shell, she's an all American classic locomotive. That should hold some weight.

Of course a proper restoration would require straightening or replacing the bent truss members.

But if all the steel is bent inward could one do a cheap restoration by applying a new skin directly over the bent framework with suitable spacers to bring it up to the proper level? Just curious as I would hope no one would actually do this since I would hope that a properly done cosmetic restoration could someday lead to an operational restoration. But if it's never to run again then it may not matter.

Steve

This restoration would be a real challenge just to a cosmetic likeness. I think the KM team at Niles Canyon would be up to it AFTER the KM is "done", especially if there is national interest (and funding). At least NCRY/PLA was a facility and a "track" record. It would be interesting to know the Smithsonian's decision process. Would this be a matter of public record?

So if you could get the support of a big national organization with maybe 15,000 members and if you could get every one of those members to write a check to the project for $200, you would have $3,000,000 which gets you somewhere in the general area of what a running restoration is likely to cost. That is provided that you do not have to meet current emissions regulations and that you do not need to install cab signal or ACSES equipment.

PC

Good to hear that #19 still survives and even may run on occasion. I have slides of that particular PA in D+H paint taken in 1977 that my father took pics of as it was pulling a train in Northern NJ. I'd have to dig the slide carousels out to find out where exactly it was taken. Even a D+H RS3 ran by minutes later on another track.


As long as #16 doesn't wind up getting cut up for scrap there's a chance it could be repaired, just need to find someone with deep pockets. Once it's gone for good though..................

This presumes, of course, that:
1) all 15,000 members of said organization actually care about an Alco PA preservation project;
2) that they care $200 worth (that's five years' worth of dues to a typical Chapter member);
3) that all 15,000 members actually have $200 to spare after taxes, the college fund, the rent, the car repairs, the leaking roof, the cavity to fill, etc.

Frankly, I think the specter of the Smithsonian "abandoning" this noble and worth project may taint its prospects in the long term. I'm happy to see McCormick's private progress on "NKP 190," but.....

$3M??? That's a bit over the top - a new GEVO unit isn't that much! I am sure that $600-750K could cover the cost, depending on the amount of structural damage. Various contractors are availabe to do things like wiring, brakes, prime mover, generator, traction motors, wheels, air compressors, et al. Although a 244-series would be appropriate for the prime mover, the rest of the stuff could be done with modern components (Alco/MLW Century series cards/control/wiring).

I know this sounds crazy, but perhaps Steamtown should have been considered as a recipient/custodian for the locomotive. Not only are they a unit of the NPS, but THE Alco Doc in the US is readily available to manage a restoration to working order. I am not knocking Dallas for getting it, but I do want to know what process was used for deaccession, as it seems a lot of other places would have arguably been better.

Mike

Opps, sorry...its an E9.
Southern Pacific #6051 is opperational and is stored at the California State Railroad Museum. Here is the Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Pacific_6051

It would be very interesting to see how someone could do a full operational restoration of the PA for $600K to $700K, considering the carbody is an empty shell with extensive structural damage and it needs a prime mover, traction motors, wheels, and a full suite of auxiliary equipment as well as a new electrical cabinet and restoration of all piping systems, wiring and cable. If you want a quality rebuilding I prefer an estimate around $3 million, just for "planning" purposes of course. The big question is to what degree you are willing to sacrifice historical accuracy in order to get a locomotive that "runs". If you just want it to "run" you can scrap out an operating RS3 and substitute its 12-244 engine or search for individual items of machinery to get a set of components, many usable as substitutes, that will operate. That brings the price down a lot, but it won't be an accurate restoration (unless you are trying to re-create D&H #17 for the short time in 1973 when the D&H installed a 12-244 following failure of its 16-244).

Please be sure and remind me of the final price once it is back running again, I would like to see which estimate is closest.

PC

No offense to CSRM, but they don't have a real great track record for the type of restoration #16 would require. You all know the issues relating to CSRM and the Santa Fe collection, so I won't rehash them again. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe CSRM restored SP #6051 or the Warbonnet F-units they have. I don't think I'd send #16 to Steamtown either.

It seems like the obvious choice to restore #16 would have been Doyle McCormack. I'm curious to know whether the Smithsonian ever discussed doing so with him. As he restores (or rebuilds if you please) #18, he's dealing with a lot of custom fabrication and unique restoration issues that will have to be duplicated by someone again with #16 (Minus the work needed to make her operational.) If #16 and #18 been restored together, or at least in a coordinated effort, economies of scale would have resulted in money and time being saved.

As far as #17 and #19 in the museum at Puebla go, I've never heard positively which one of them is operational. As of 1986, all four of the ex-D&H PAs were rendered out of service due to various mishaps, with #19 being the last to operate. In about 1989, #19 was again restored to operation by the shop at Empalme and operated briefly before being consigned to the Puebla museum. #17 was then restored to operation in the early '90s, and there was a rumor that some parts were removed from #19 and placed on #17 before #19 went to the museum. #17 was retired and sent to the museum sometime after 1994, I believe. I'd be curious to know if anyone on the board has actually seen or heard either or both of the Puebla PAs operate.

As it last held a 12-251F it would be easiest to reinstall the same power plant. I presume one might go Doyle's route and get as much as you can from an MLW or Alco going to scrap. What condition was his in...anything left besides the shell?

Steve

JJ Jacobsen-where are you ?

I think that three million dollars is a realistic estimate-given that the entire job would no doubt be priced based upon time and materials.

DPK

If someone really has $3 million to throw around wouldn't it make more sense to offer the museum in Mexico $1 million or so for either 17 or 19?

Whoever is in charge of the resto should seek an active sponsorship from Fairbanks Morse (Alco), US Steel, and the makers of Bondo..

Actually, Nova55 is absolutely correct. The first thing to do is get some photos, do a short history piece on display board, explain what this locomotive means in American railroad history. Next would be a sketched display board of what is the desired outcome, and the role of, say, three or four sponsors. Third board shows a sketch of the proposed use of the display, and possible loan program to cities around the country.
Lastly, explain what is needed in money or services, or product.

The owners would need to beat some doors and make some appointments, but deciding nothing can be done will ensure nothing will be done.