I suspect that anybody with the wherewithal to move and store railroad equipment would be rather wary of the Mayor’s offer. First of all, I doubt that the owners of the equipment can pay for the temporary storage, and the move into and out of that storage. So that leaves the person accepting the deal not getting any direct payment for his effort. All he gets for compensation is railroad equipment with a disputed title and questionable sales value. Who would want to touch that? I wonder what "Plan C" will be.

This is an interesting concept really, especially when you look at the automobile impound laws which the township seems to be using here. I suppose you could say a locomotive is a motor vehicle. At one time at NJMT the diesel locomotives were declared farm machinery by the state of NJ for some reason that escapes me now.

Before the equipment can be sold, it has to be impounded for some period of time, then it can be auctioned off. There are established rules for the process.

So, the stuff has to be moved first to some location for impounding. You'd want that spot to be fairly far away so that trucking costs are substantial enough to prevent the move of any equipment back to the original location.

You'd also want a company without local ties since the publicity will be bad.

So, the equipment is moved and is now in a yard someplace racking up about $100/day per item or roughly $1200 per day. Figure 400 tons stuff at $250/ton or $100,000 in processed scrap value so it all has to sit in the impound yard for 83 days before the impound fees exceed the scrap value. (Did I do the math right?)

At that point, the town auctions off the equipment. In theory, the impound yard owner wins the auction, cuts the stuff up and pockets $100K minus the cost of the move and the cost of the land. Say $3K average to move each item, or $36K to move it all to the yard from Pemberton. Plus rent on a couple of acres in the Pinelands, maybe another $6K, or so to round things off, so the guy clears roughly $60K. I'd assume the township would get a cut of this somehow under the impound auction rules.

I would suspect the impound yard owner (or renter of the property) would be a scrap dealer. With the price of scrap, its not a bad deal for him. .With modern equipment he can have it cut up in a week or two.

Of course you can't just take any vacant field and dump 12 pieces of standard gauge equipment in it and get away without permits, variances, etc. This is NJ after all.

I did a little research and came up with Mazza and Sons. Its just a guess, or an example, but they do this kind of work. Located in NJ a reasonable distance from Pemberton. Have real estate/yards for such efforts. Have the permits and such as well. I am not sure they have the means to move the stuff though, so perhaps my move costs are a tad low.

The above is worse case which we hope does not happen, but if it does happen what can the preservation community do? I would guess get a hold of the yard owner/scrap dealer. Assume he wins the auction since the stuff is in his yard already. If you want a 45 ton locomotive then you pay him something over scrap value and be ready to move it quickly. Say $12K for the 45 tonner, or $5K for the NX23, assuming it was not destroyed in the move.

J.R.

Sounds like it's time for the trust to hire an attorney and file injunction, or whatever the NJ law requires , to halt the actions. Either that or personally go after the mayor with a lawsuit if he has violated the law. The key is, GET AN ATTORNEY! Otherwise, start getting pictures because it will all be gone soon.
At the same time, find a place it CAN be moved to and someone to move it.

You know, in San Francisco, there are tenants who stop paying their rent, and then live free for many months using a wide variety of legal machinations to drag out and delay the eviction process. Ultimately, though, they lose.

The Trust can do the same, but ultimately they cannot remain if the landowner is resolved to have them gone.


Yeah, someone moved your cheese. For political reasons, members of the Trust absolutely love to argue with and demonize the sitting Mayor. They charge at this red flag like a bull, and they fail to notice what has changed to bring all this on. The township is selling the land to the county in exchange for another piece of land the township presumably wants to develop. It is possible the funding for that project has a time limit. If your partisan politics causes the township to lose outside funding, then you are a bad guy. A condition of that project is the land swap. The county does not want your trains there, and may have set that as a condition of sale. The township MUST comply with the conditions of sale; they can't ignore a contract.

So stop being blinded by politics and go talk to the county. Their word decides the matter.

Right now you still have 4 options.

#1. Reach an understanding with the County.

#2. Buy land elsewhere and haul the equipment off yourselves.

#3. Throw in the towel. Get a Bill Wall type person to organize other museums to divvy up the equipment and haul it outta there quick.

#4. Watch the equipment get cut up.

I note that there's a former Mayor inside the Trust, who still has political machinations. How will each of those options benefit his political career? I smell... cheese.

Ed,

Major hole in your theory, the deal for the land swap was made 3+ years ago, when the Trust already had equipment on site. If that was a condition of the transfer, why was a notice not sent to the trust over a year ago while the depot restoration was in process, instead of a 30 day move it or loose it eviction order??? Especially since it would not have been hard to contact the trust since they were there multiple times a week operating from the depot location (after all that is where their museum & store is).

From what I have seen on this topic the only thing delaying the land transfer was the finishing of the Depot restoration. From what I have seen the matches that lit the fire involved the trust red flagging poor workmanship of the contractor to the county/township who was also the project inspector and the move of the 45 tonner onto the site.

Has anyone in the trust seen the land transfer agreement, to make sure the trust's inclusion was included in the transfer??? I hate to say this as an outsider, but with the economy this almost smells like the mayor realized how low the township's coffer is, and went looking for an infusion of quick money by selling what he views as a pile of scrap metal on town land, that will soon not be town land.

Rich C.

I can't help but think that this whole thing would be a lot easier if the items in question had more of a relationship to Pemberton itself.

A locomotive from a steel mill (which did not exist in the town), and a number of pieces that equipment that don't seem to have any real connection to the town beyond "there were railroad tracks here and these are railroad cars" don't make a compelling display to sway much non-involved public sympathy.

Maybe if the items involved were things with more of a connection to the town, like a passenger car of the type that used to be used on the train that ran through the town, or something like that, the guys might have better luck.

I think there's a lesson here about developing a mission, and staying on it.

Another railroad museum.

I'm serious. If the Trust loses their location, it's yours. If the Trust establishes themselves there or elsewhere, and comes back for it, don't pull a MOT -- let them have it for your bare costs. "Oh, also, bring a letter from your landlord affirming that he accepts it at your destination."

I would agree in general. But it looks like mostly PRR and Roebling, and the PRR served the station and Roebling may be the most important employer in the county beside the Army. Roebling was only 20 miles away... well, Orange Empire is 40 miles from anywhere a Red Car ever ran. South Shore cars at IRM? South Bend is closer to ITM and SMRS. It ain't about locality, railroad museums have such very particular land requirements that they can't be choosers.

Besides, the public won't know the equipment belongs, until it's legibly lettered.

First let me say that the "quote" above doesn't look like something I posted. The land swap, not sale, was put on paper several years ago and does include wording that means all equipment is included in the swap. But you have to keep in mind that a lot of what has transpired is illegal but unless you have deep pockets to retain a lawyer, you cannot fight it. If there were a state or federal group that you could take your complaint to that would make it right, the trust would be OK.

And the mission of the trust is area history, not just Pemberton history. Anything rail related in the area is open for them to put on display and that includes Roebling rail history. Remember that the trust reside in Burlington County.

Later!
Mr. Ed

The township can't sell of your equipment, if they don't own it. That would be like me coming over and selling your car and me keeping the money.

You obviously haven't read very far back in this thread. J.R. May's post shows how they plan to do it. Could a legal challenge reverse this plan? Perhaps but the township's plan is at least plausible - park your car at your local town hall for a few years and see if you still own it.

Yes. My lawyer calls that "making new law". It's either time-consuming or expensive, depending on whether you outsource your legal services.

And for the opposition, that can be the entire point. Break your back with the costs.

Hope there is an election due soon. Even people who do not care for trains and rail museums usually don't want to endure dictator style leadership.

Wes

Here's a little update. Irene caused flooding in the basement. In the past, the trust would have a member check occasionally to make sure that the sump pump was functional.

Now with the trust being locked out, the township neglected to check and the basement had up to 6" of water in it. So then, the township let the trust in to clean up the mess. So they took stuff outside to dry on the "deck". (Since the abortion they call the restoration work, it can no longer be called a platform.) So guess what happens then? The puppet of the mayor, Chris Vaz, township administrator, tells the trust to get the stuff off of the deck because it looks bad.

Now prior to the work on the platform, there was a curb that had been installed in the early 20th century that went down 24". This was precast and set in place. This served multiple purposes one of which was to divert water either down the tracks or farther into the ground where it would pass under the building. Enter the contractor to do the restoration work. He bid on the job and knew the specs called for the curbing to be repaired in several locations. But instead he rips out the curbing and pours a footing that goes down anbout 12". This was over the back fill he put in one day and then poured the concrete the next day. And he put this work in as an extra so he could get more money. The township engineer and the mayor approved this extra work. The council never got the chance to approve or disapprove this extra work. They were told about it after the contractor had gotten paid.

There was mediation last week that went no where so now there will be a hearing in court this week to see if they can get this situation resolved. There was a peaceful demonstration at the station last Thursday supporting the museum that was covered by the Courier Post. But the cops were across the street videotaping the entire demonstartion.

Later!
Mr. Ed