Since I am new to this forum, another member kindly directed me here from the calamities and boo-boos thread.
I find the 'Blue Peter' situation and the comments on this thread very interesting and very intriguing. Though growing up when steam was still running, I have never had the honour of running a locomotive. I did have some quality time in the cab of CNR Mountain No.6060 back in the 1970s. There were some main line runs at speed. The usual hogger was a veteran who had may thousands of miles in steam service and knew the territory well. He handled the engine and trains with remarkable ease. Those experiences were unforgettable.
An old pal and I often chat about the old days. He has made comments about train operation and shop work in the past. Although we can still do these things today, as he says, the nuances of these things have been lost. The old hogger on No.6060 learned his trade from experience and worked his way up to the high speed varnish!
Has there been any testimony from the driver and crew aboard Blue Peter that day? This is not to disparage these folks as it appears they were overwhelmed by a series of horrible events. But I would have a few questions and will throw them out for discussion:
- why was the water high in the boiler?
- what is the track profile approaching and leaving Durham? Since there was a bridge crossing and grade ahead of the train, is it possible there was a down grade coming in to the station?
- was the driver led to believe that he should carry higher water approaching Durham because of a descending grade?
- was he assuming that there would be no stop and that higher water would not be such an issue as he would have some speed and so would not be forcing the engine on the ascending grade leaving?
- what is the tonnage rating for that class of engine for that territory?
- what was the tonnage of the train that day?
- what are the nuances of that class of engine re slipping under load?
- what are the nuances of that particular engine in that regard? Remembering No.6060, I don't recall much in the way of slipping under normal conditions and don't recall ever reading or hearing that that class was known for slipping in heavy passenger service.
Plenty of questions; but it would be nice to get some more thoughts on this from people here who have operating knowledge.
Thank you.

My understanding of what led up to this was that there was an unscheduled stop made at this depot. Probably the crew added a considerable amount of water to keep the engine from popping, as I believe they had already been pulling uphill for a distance and the engine was good and hot. On an oil-burner it would be possible to cool the engine off a little quicker in an un-planned stop like this, but with a coal burner you're full of fire and suddenly not using any of the steam so either you blow the pops or you put in a ton of water, which seems to be what they did. I also heard that this class of engine had/have a propensity for sucking water and that this crew may have not been familiar enough with the engine to know that. So with the water level apparently too high, the slip probably created a water-spout-type situation into the throttle, and whether it actually stuck open or the engineer was simply not able to react before he was incapacitated is hard to say (I read that the throttle lever pushed out so violently that it hit him in the jaw, and possibly stunned him. I've had this happen to me, although not this violently.) In any event, as said before, the perfect storm.

flash34,
Thank you for the above. I have finally read all the posts in this thread and viewed the videos - all very, very interesting and a learning experience.
A few more questions:
-in normal mainline practise (without unusually steep grades above, say, 2.5 %), did engine crews have to watch for certain descending grades and add water? Or was a normal operating level ok for the most part?
- was it normal operation to run locomotive with full throttle and make other adjustments with the reverser? I remember listening to old railroaders (and should have listened more and better!) mentioning things like running in the "company notch" and of certain locomotives that took a little finesse, meaning unexpected throttle and quadrant positions, to get the best out of them.
Chatted a bit about this incident with a chum last night. He mentioned an incident where a locomotive was being run into the shop after a day's running. The engineer did not have a lot of experience at the time. He had raised the water in the boiler so she would have a good level for firing up the next time; but got it perhaps too high. She carried water into the superheaters and ran right through the shop! Luckily the door was open and the track was clear so no harm done - but some lessons learned!
Thank you.

Yes, any time a major grade change is approaching the fireman (and really the engineer too) has to plan ahead and be prepared for whatever water level changes will happen. There are many variables, including how steep the grade up or down, how hard the engine is or will be working, and also how far up or down it is ok to go on a certain class of locomotive, considering the actual relative height of the glasses compared to the crown sheet and the throttle or dry pipe opening. Some engines you don't want to get too close to the top of the glass because they WILL work water, and others have a more correct height of their glass and you can run it up out of sight and be just fine. Also you have to keep in mind that when an engine is working hard it also raises the water level by the drawing off of the steam. So when you crest a grade not only do you lose water in the glass due to the grade change but also some more due to the closing of the throttle. You may be pulling a hill and have your water at the top of the glass one minute and then you level off and close your throttle way down and in a matter of seconds be down to 1/3 of a glass. Even more so if you immediately start downhill on the other side. Occasionally a crew may have to stop at the top of a grade and raise water so as to have enough to safely go down the other side.

As to the other question, there are situations where it is appropriate to run the engine with the throttle wide open and use the reverser to run the engine, but in a lot of situations this really isn't practical, especially these days. And in situations when it IS practical, if you don't have a power reverse then again it's probably not a great idea. When working hard a Johnson bar can throw a full grown man around.

Scott Gordon

flash34,
Thank you for the information.
This is an interesting learning experience!