Both this post and your post in the 4876 treat read like Jonathan Swift's Modest Proposal. I can only presume that you are enjoying the libations typically consumed on Memorial Day Weekend.

Pop culture if a fickle thing. What is popular today isn't popular tomorrow, or even next year. The 8888 and the 4876 are in railfan popular culture, but I imagine if I went out and asked the "average person" what the 8888 or the 4876 was, or explained the events, they probably wouldn't know what I was talking about. Though I bet I'd get quite the opposite if I went to an NRHS meeting. Most people have probably already forgotten that very forgettable movie by now. If your hope was to reap financial gain for the Youngstown Steel Heritage Foundation by using 8888 as part of an "Unstoppable" exhibit, you are about 2-3 years too late.

Your whole argument in both threads can be summed up as "We need to quit preserving things that are intrinsically historic, focus on connecting with the public by 'relatable' stories. How do we do this? We MUST preserve two intrinsically historic pieces of equipment!" It is a circular argument that doubles back on itself.

By your own argument, your work to preserve Carrie Furnace should just stop. It isn't important. No large scale carnage, no Civil War battle, no "relatable" event. No heroic events. It's just a place where average people went to work, produced products from raw materials. A pile of crappy machinery with no exciting story to tell because it isn't a salacious or heroic one.

What we collect and how we present it to the public are two different things. A class locomotive can tell a larger story of why railroads used this power, how it was important in industry and economic history. A streetcar tells the story of urban transit in a time when people did not own cars, whether it is the first or last of its class. In other words, we should be telling everyday stories, how railways shaped the larger picture of American history.

Oh but I disagree. Seems like you are took my posts as an "either or" argument. Shame on you for thinking so one dimensionally. I was making the case that these two examples are ALSO worthy of preservation in addition to everything else that is already preserved. The stories behind 4876 and the 8888 are not transitory, they will still attract interest many years into the future. It is that interest that we should be embracing as the hook to get more people in the door. Then once they are there we can tell the stories that all of the other pieces have to tell.

Don't think Carrie Furnaces has a compelling story to tell? Ever hear of two men named Carnegie and Frick? If you don't think the story of how these two built the steel industry in the Mon Valley isn't of interest to many people then you need to come on down sometime. Carrie furnaces fits right into that story. Wanna know how many visitors watched that horrible "Men Who Made America" on History Channel and have asked us "Did Frick really kick a man while he was down?". They now know the story, too bad its almost entirely inaccurate.

I completely agree with Mr Wilkins.

After visiting Big Brutus in Kansas a few years ago I can see that, properly promoted & displayed, These engines would be a rewarding exhibit for the group [and area] that displayed them. Maybe it can't be done money wise, [the preservation] .
I have saved or restored things because I cared about them [no one else has much interest] This is different

wm303 wrote:

The notion that SD40-2 8888 is being scrapped is presumptuous, at best. Just because someone posted it on the internet or the print media does not mean that it is true.

someone else wrote:
It was reported by TRAINS Magazine.

Well, three months later we know that even Trains Magazine publishes erroneous information. Their content is only as reliable as the source of the information.

8888 Update - the locomotive is in Huntington and is scheduled for the rebuild program.

4621/8437 Update - the locomotive is still in Corbin and is now listed in Umler as GCK 7496. It has been waiting for three weeks for [How Tomorrow Moves] to move it to Knoxville. NS will take it from there to Shaffers Crossing for some combos, after which it is going to Roanoke Chapters 9th Street Yard for the rest of the mechanical and cosmetic work and a fresh coat of gloss black and imitation gold.

Too much foam and not enough clear thinking here. The SD40-2 is a very numerous model; almost 4000 of them were built. If the locomotive were the FIRST one off the line, that would be the best reason for preservation. And when the time comes that there are only a few SD40-2s left, perhaps the LAST one would be a candidate for preservation. If a particular locomotive was a rare and special variant, THAT might be a reason for preservation. Many railroads have "first" SD40-2s, so maybe the historical society for one of another particular railroad might want to preserve one in that road's colors. But other than that, what is the big deal? And I do agree that "Crazy Eights" is nothing special except for its dubious history.

Just sayin'.

Unfortunately the first SD40-2 ever built (KCS 637 later 3200) was scrapped in 2010.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=2111042

"Unfortunately the first SD40-2 ever built (KCS 637 later 3200) was scrapped in 2010".

Yet another example of erroneous reporting by members of the rail fan community. The very next picture in Railroad Picture Archives shows 3200 parked next to SD70ACe 4058 in storage in 2011.

I was told by a manager at KCS that there has been no decision made regarding 637/3200. And yes, they are aware that it is the first production SD40-2.

It's too bad that the owners of the first production SD40 (C&NW 867) either did not know what they had or did not care.

Who is going to perserve P42 #44 and #120 the locomotive that hauld the inaugural train? Maybe the hart of Dixie Railroad Museum? LOL

I fail to see the humor here.

The REAL problem with preserving diesel locomotives is their total lack of diversity! Since the mid-1970s they all pretty much look the same; the only difference being the paint! The aphorism, "form follows function" is all about the diesel locomotive. The average guy can tell, at a glance, a Ford from a Chevy, but only a few can tell, at a glance, that a locomotive is an EMD and what model. And in the present case, this is hardly an "artifact" since there are still 3000+ copies running around the country. For a diesel locomotive on display, interpretation is critical because the thing looks to the layman just like all the other thousands of diesels out there. The layman needs to know what is so special about the lump of steel sitting in front of him.

But we have an opportunity to try the shoe on the other foot.

We have the first-off-the-line SD40-2 in storage, the owner not sure what to do with it. We have a bunch of rabid railfans clamoring to "Save the Historical Artifact!". But there is no "rubber to meet the road" until some organization steps up and says, "Well! that SD40-2 is just what we need in our collection of vintage(?) diesels. Who wants to help us acquire this important artifact by donating to our acquisition fund?"

At this point, this is an "artifact" with no place to go. And if some museum or other organization DID manage to "save" the locomotive, will they actually have a plan for preservation and interpretation to really save it or are they going to "save" it by parking it out behind the station, another interesting but mostly unknown piece of railroad equipment left to rust into oblivion?

LOL.
Once I was riding around Carrothers Yard with a buddy, back when you could do that sort of thing and not get taken down by Homeland Security. As we drove, he called out the model number of every diesel locomotive we saw. I thought he was some sort of diesel-spotting "Rain man", or had memorized all of Conrail's number ranges... when I noticed that the model number was in small type right on the side of every cab.

Hoo boy. Where do I start?.......

What you cite as a "problem" is exactly what makes diesel preservation practical--if "they're all alike," I can scavenge spares from Halifax to Bakersfield, from Hialeah to Anchorage. Try to find spare rod bearings or throttles or cylinder heads for steamers.

The "average guy" in 2013 can only tell a Ford from a Chevy from a Nissan from a Kia from a Toyota from a Mazda because of the plates or names designating them as such. Go out into a parking lot full of gray Corollas and Sentras and Cobalts and whatever and tell them apart--I challenge you (as do those mall parking lots on a daily basis). Certain models--VW Beetles, Corvettes, etc.--are designed to be distinctive, but most of them you need a spotter's guide.
And they only can tell them apart because they CARE. They care because they can buy and own a car, and/or they get involved one way or another with auto sports and/or fixing their cars. I can spot and tell Saturn models a block or more away only because I've owned several over the years. I can similarly spot MG, Triumph, Audi, and VW models because I've had friends that specialized in them, and I can do reasonably well at vintage motorcycles for the same reason. I couldn't even tell you what models Ford or Chevy offer right now.
On the other hand, I can tell the builder and model of just about any diesel locomotive I see in North America, assuming it hasn't been rebuilt willy-nilly under the hood like NS is doing with a lot of SD50's and the like at the moment. It wasn't easy--it took years of experience and reading to get that good, and I STILL have the various DSGs right beside the computer on the roll-top desk. And now we have a few home-brewed and short-production hybrids to confuse me.

And that "there are still thousands" line is a trap. It invites complacency and the idea of "someone else will save one". Then the next thing you know, none get saved because it was assumed someone else would. As useful and popular as the SD40-2 or B40-8 may be, someone HAS to take the initiative and simply make the eventual acquisition of one a long-term goal. And you save it BECAUSE it was the locomotive you saw used every day. Legions of GP7/GP9's are being saved mostly because it's a very handy size for short lines and excursion operators, not because of preservation objectives.

And if you can't make that layman care about that hunk of steel on display at your railroad museum because "it looks like all the other ones," well, then, you probably have the exact same problem with the freight cars, the passenger cars, the steamers, and the cabooses. It's not what it looks like; it's that you aren't interpreting the exhibit or helping the layman and his kids to relate to or care about the objects in question.