That's very true, but perhaps while a single system wouldn't be one size fits all, but a couple of different ones might hit most of the common use cases.

ADM,

"Daguscahounda" I had to look that up. It is a real place!

Group,

I belong to a professional traffic engineering organization that is going through the same 'pains' as the NRHS. There are local chapters, local districts, the national, and special commitees. All with varying fees depending upon how involved you want to be. All I get from the National is a monthly magazine filled with college thesis results and advertisements. All for the 'bargain' price of $255 per year.

I am not a member of the NRHS nor do I plan to be, but I am seeing many similarities. They need to cut costs (electronic version of the magazine would be a start) or cut overhead. But how much overhead does the NRHS have?

This brings up a good point, other groups really put the screws to you.
Has anyone here ever looked up the cost of joining the Commemorative Air Force (formerly known as the Confederate AF)? Those folks charge a lot of coin for an annual membership, $200 for the most basic level of normal member. I once asked one of their folks at an airshow why it costs so much, and was told, "We can weed out the riff raff that way, only someone serious about our mission would want to spend that kind of money." And anyone who ever gets to hop into an airplane to go up has to be a plane sponsor, which cost thousands of dollars each year (and some of them aren't even allowed to get into a cockpit seat). They also don't actively try to recruit people at their shows that I've ever seen. Must be nice to be able to be that picky.

How many members in the CAF? I'd be willing to bet it is in the 4-figure range. And I'd also surmise not all are "lowly" $200 members, either.

Howard P.

There are several issues here that some of you may not be aware of ---

1) Under the NRHS bylaws each chapter is a separate corporate entity and this fact is mentioned in every major financial report the society publishes.

2) In order for the society to handle the money involved there have to be agreements between the National and the chapters and that means paying lawyers big bucks because your co-mingling money from two separate corporations and you have to have a separate agreement with each chapter.

3) Assume for the sake of argument, there are 150 chapters and each one incurs on the average 10 bills a month (obviously some will have many more, some many less). That means roughly 1500 bills a month will come in or 75 per working day and someone is going to have to pay them, someone else will have to reconcile the accounts involved. Eight an hour would be a fast pace to review pay these bills (and at a minimum unless you have someone at the chapter level review these bills you have to assume that there are no disputes and the bills are accurate), so that works out to having a full time person (either a volunteer or more likely a contractor doing just that) and the paper involved would fill a couple of file drawers a month...... and that's before we get to the issue of how deposits are handled and tracked etc.

4) Then, for those chapters, for whom audits by CPAs are required, comes the expense of sending the CPAs to the National's headquarters for several days each. For a chapter near the hgts, that's no big deal, but for any distance away there would be major travel expenses involved (airplane tickets, hotels, meals) to say nothing of the NRHS staff time involved.

Need I say more?

Bob H

I've been avoiding participating in this discussion up to now. I've been a party to similar local discussions about other railroad and non-railroad oriented groups recently. I too have been a long-time member of the NRHS (going on 38 years) and have belonged to three chapters over that time. I think they still have a role to play in both the railroad hobby and preservation, but it definitely is a changing role from what it has been in the past. Less in-person, more clearing house of information and resources (both intrinsic and financial).

I think there is a crying need for a truly national railroad-oriented library, of more than just books. About 20 years ago the National co-opted, essentially confiscated, the Potomac Chapter's film library for "safekeeping". I really would like to know how that is working out? Is it in climate controlled storage? We didn't seriously fight the move, since it seemed like they did have a point about who had the long-term resources to care for it better (it was in the basement of a member at the time). The National promised that the films would be transferred to video and made available for loan to all chapters. I know that some of that happened, I don't know if all of it did.

Membership services seems to be a nearly universal problem area for just about every nation-wide non-profit group I've either been involved with or know anything about. In the past couple of years I've had problems with my dues renewals for NARP being recorded as donations and not renewals. I've had the same problem with another national organization as well. I have not had that particular problem with the NRHS however, which I chalk up to the fact that all dues expire at the end of each year, and that a local contact person is in charge of renewals for everyone within each chapter. Other issues dog them, which have been discussed in detail here.

Local money has also not seemed to be an issue with the NRHS. Each chapter has their own funds, which the national does not have any claim to. This is NOT true of a lot of other national organizations with chapters. I consider the bottom-up nature of each chapter's relations with the National to be major plus compared to non-railroad groups I'm involved with.

The National is governed by the directors of each chapter. If enough of those directors get together and decide to vote out the current leadership they can do so. That is how the current NRHS President came into office. It is also how NARP was restructured over 10 years ago, essentially a coup from below by the directors. You want to make change in the National, the precedent is there. I know there are any number of aging members, and non-members, who would like to find a safe place where their photo and artifact collections would be valued and used by those with a serious interest in railroad history, and not end up either being put out on the curb by uncaring relatives, or sold off to either a commercial slide seller or video producer. The window of opportunity is quickly closing on this.

I don't know where you are getting your information on these two topics, but all of it is false and misleading

1) The Potomac Chapter never owned any of the films in the NRHS film library, but if memory serves me right had a member who thought they were his personal films. That issue was resolved roughly 25 or more years ago and the films are housed under professional conditions in NJ.

The National has been considering copying the films to DVD format, but there's one major legal issue that has to be resolved (and this impacts all film libraries) If some one else owns the copy right to a film, you can make a copy of it, but can you distribute it.

2) All NRHS members whose dues were current for 2012 should be aware the society is operating under a new set of bylaws with a much smaller, more workable BOD and the President and Vice President are elected directly by the members, not by the National Directors as used to be the case .... because they were given the opportunity to (a) vote on the new bylaws and (b) vote in the election last fall.

Bob H

From my faulty memory of events from when I was a fairly new member of the chapter. I was under the impression that the movies in question were taken by member(s) of the chapter, not commercial films held onto by said member. Sorry for my confusion.

I also apparently haven't kept up with changes in the governance of the Board and officers at the national level. Sounds like some things may have changed somewhat for the better. Thank you for the corrections. I think there is validity to the rest of my comments.

That depends entirely upon who you talk to. Some will say that it streamlines the processes of change; others will say--with some justification--"then why do we even HAVE a National 'representative'? Their input is functionally irrelevant anyway!"

It's been a matter of fact for many chapters for many years that the "National Director" was simply the member with enough money and leisure time to travel to the far-flung board meetings and partake of the side activities and excursions offered as "perks." If there wasn't such a member, they functionally had no representation in the NRHS BOD. But is the new "advisory council" any better?

There has been at least 1-2 National Directors that have quit their positions over this change, basically refusing to participate in what the one called to my face "a charade."

As this discussion rages on RYPN, the latest all-color 20 page NRHS News arrives in my mailbox. Once again I look at the newsletter and the latest dues increase and wonder why they can't email this as a pdf and save printing and mailing costs.

I look at it and wonder why it is worth reading......

Maybe they are spending all that money on postage in the hope of keeping the fleet of Railroad Post Office cars profitable?

4) Then, for those chapters, for whom audits by CPAs are required, comes the expense of sending the CPAs to the National's headquarters for several days each.


What??

Anyone who knows anything about managing a non profit knows that external audits of 501c3 tax exempt organizations may be required for several reasons, including for example state law where donations to the organization have gone over a certain dollar limit, or to get grants, or bonding etc.

NRHS has an external audit performed every year and the audit report is one of the requirements the National has to meet to be eligible for donations from the Federal Govt's Combined Federal Campaign (similar to the United Fund, but for Federal Employees).

Since first becoming eligible a few years ago, NRHS has received over $100,000 through CFC.

Bob H

As a currently licensed CPA with an understanding of TAX EXEMPT CHARITIES, I'm not only familiar with management and compliance responsibilities, but I also understand how to plan and conduct an audit.

As much as I appreciate your response, it still doesn't explain what you are trying to say here: " for those chapters, for whom audits by CPAs are required, comes the expense of sending the CPAs to the National's headquarters for several days each."