I have read everyone's posts, and have decided there are as many different view points on the unknown future of Cass as there are railfans who visit it. Since much of it is opinion just as what a lot of what I said was opinion, I'll just leave it at that and say anything is possible at this point.

However, I will take a quick look at Dave's above quote.

As far as the timeliness of compensation of the contractor you described, the fact is, even if this change happens, any individual or company hired to do maintenance or repairs to the park or railroad will likely have to go through just as much red tape as before to get paid. The reason being, the potential sub-contractor who will operate the railroad will most likely (again this is speculation, just wanted to point that out) take care of the day-to-day operations of the line itself, while the state government will still be responsible for maintaining the railroad. The monies compensated for such work will just go through different hands to get to those who did the work. While this isn't exactly the same thing, I will say that I produced a DVD on Cass a few years ago and sold it in the company store/gift shop. It took literally three months just to get the paperwork approved for them to purchase the DVDs, and another two months after the sale was made for me to get my check. It is unfortunate, and not necessarily a problem at Cass, but in the state government in general (the forms I filled out were to be sent to Charleston, not Cass, afterall). I only sold them the one batch of DVDs and just decided to get back out of the business.

You are 100% correct about needing to get the perfect balance of business vs. public good. It will be a challenge though.

Here is some more speculation of what might happen, but this is EDUCATED speculation based on the situation, and I assume this really is what is going to happen: while the day-to-day railroad operation itself will be handled by the proposed contractor and the track will be converted to WVSRA, I'm fairly certain that there will still be Cass Scenic Railroad State Park as well. I believe all that is being conveyed to the contractor is the train operations and general maintenance. A superintendent and state park employees will still manage the company house operation and run the town itself. Land at Whittaker and Bald Knob will also still be operated and maintained by the state park system. I could be wrong, but if you think about it, this only makes sense: What would a railroad contractor or the state rail authority want with a bunch of old company houses?

You don't need or want just a railroad contractor; what you want and need is a producer who can operate large and complex productions and multifaceted venues in the tourism sector of the entertainment industry. Running and fixing trains is the easy part - why not get better talent for managing the hard parts?

dave

And there's the downside of playing with century-old steam locomotives. Inevitably a major component fails catastrophically and the original artifact is ruined.

What follows is from the facebook group Save the Cass Railroad:

INFORMATION UPDATE:

From a source at Cass who has spoken with a state delegate, the plan is that the Cass Scenic Railroad will be transferred to the Department of Commerce who is over the West Virginia Rail Authority. A bid went out with very narrow specs on who could bid. One of the stipends is that the bidder has to have trackage that connects to Cass.

Who does that leave, but John Smith? Mr. Smith is also applying for a $40 million grant to reinstall the line from Durbin to the High Bridge over Shaver's Fork of Cheat River, located just outside of Bemis, WV.

For those of you that think we are just panicking and painting a picture of doom and gloom to cause an uproar for no reason, you are wrong. This is REAL, folks! There seems to be a lot of back room stuff going on and the taxpayers, employees, and patrons of Cass Scenic Railroad need to know what is going on. When you talk to an elected official, demand to know what is happening. You elected them.

END OF FACEBOOK POST

My personal thoughts: It isn't surprising that this whole scheme is designed to line the pockets of John Smith. Now I REALLY hope this doesn't happen. So no other contractors will even be considered except Smith, which is a dangerous move for the future of the park. One thought that has crossed my mind: Mr. Smith is no spring chicken...what if he were to become indisposed or even possibly pass away? I could be wrong, but his company, Durbin & Greenbrier Valley, doesn't seem to be set up with a delegation of power in the event of his passing. I realize they have a BOD and stockholders, but that doesn't mean that any of them are capable of making important decisions in Mr. Smith's absense. He is VERY active in keeping the operation going, and without him, the whole thing could falter.

If I wanted to be argumentative, anyone on the general rail system has "trackage that connects to Cass."

I have no reason to trust or mistrust Smith, but the stipulation in that proposal, if true, has "cronyism" and corruption written all over it. On the other hand, sometimes that "stuff" is for a good reason. I remember a police chief answering charges of "cronyism" by saying "The reason we always call Rocky's Towing is that he's ALWAYS there in ten minutes or less with one truck, and three trucks in fifteen minutes if we need them; the other guys in town take over a half hour to show up with the first truck!"

Hello. This stuff happens more than you think. In my last two jobs I saw "open searches" for employment that were posted with short response times or so narrowly constructed that in both cases was clear there was an internal candidate in mind.

It is clear the State wants to cut payroll costs the operation to a contractor in order to improve the return on the taxpayers investment in the railroad, and maybe facilitate start up of the circle route.

Wesley

Gee wizz..... Thanks for the trip under the bus there Mr. Wilson.....

To interject some fact into this hurricane of speculation....

Moore and Kipple #3 will be operating this year. It's start has been delayed by some issues that took a while to resolve between the West Virginia State boiler inspector and our Contractor. They have been sorted out and our routine repairs continue. #3 will only miss a few trips.

The Durbin and Greenbrier Valley Railroad Mechanical Department is in the middle of two fairly major projects this spring (of which #3 is one) and a major culture change focused at being ready to handle the Loop Project if and when it arrives. We have enough to do at the moment without dealing with insults.


Ben True

DGVR

And lawsuits have been initiated over such restrictive covenants.

I know of one short line "designated operator" scenario where a short line contracting company ended up bringing suit against the government entity that actually owned the trackage, insisting that the contracts to operate the line (with a "friendly" company with a lengthy, and exclusive, relationship with the government entity) were 1) never properly let out for public bids, and 2) were written such that only one entity (the favored company) was eligible.

The Cass scenario is a minefield for this kind of stuff. Operating the CSRR is a specialized scenario, almost on par with operating, say, the Mt. Washington Cog Railway or mule teams at the Grand Canyon. But public stewards have a moral and ethical obligation to hold down costs wherever possible.

Think about this for a minute.
On the one hand, we have the stereotypes of government as ineffective bean counters, ineffective stewards, the MVA/DMV bureaucrat cliches, etc. Cue your favorite "wasteful spending" and "Steamtown" anecdotes.
On the other hand, we have a unique state treasure that, according to some it seems, can only be effectively handled as a ward of the state. Cumbres & Toltec, for another example.

The initial post says that Cass losses money on every rider. I can see where there's a benefit to having multiple lines linked together but if he's just operating Cass it doesn't appear this will "line the pockets" very well.

Nothing has been 'in the news' about the Dec. 2012 'scrap theft' charges by current and ex- state employees that was dismissed and refiled in early 2013; since about April 2013 it is off the wire entirely. That couldn't have helped the case for state management, but what was the outcome? It looks like it's been a full year since the last refile. It was certainly very unclear what permissions were given.

There's also an commentary here of 'lining the pockets' that's unfair. D&GV as WVC has now been operating the line since 1997, and that needs reminded. There's been very positive economic impacts in Elkins, good ridership, and steady growth. That's what's fueled the loop concept to begin with, a noticeable degree of regional success with the WVC. I think the State has got a pretty good deal with the contract and utilizing what would otherwise be a mothballed railroad. The double-standard is that if a private operator fails, he needs bailed out, and if he actually succeeds, he's lining his pockets? I'd like to see every private operator on a state property do as well. Most don't.

Also - most state parks (including Cass) have a unified budget system that does a reasonably terrible job of isolating railroad operating expenses against park/campground/forest management - it all gets lumped together particularly in labor. And then all income goes against general fund. A railroad has to be pounded into a typical state park accounting system with a hammer, and a lot doesn't fit. Also, remember that what any business would consider a 'capital improvement' is fund balance expensed by government. So making too many statements about how much anything actually makes or looses in those circumstances best be accompanied with an audited statement and a lot of work behind it. It's mostly opinion, take with a lot of skepticism, and ask repeated questions.

Actually, I'm wondering if the vision of the loop of tourist railroads are going to result in any dramatic increase in visitation and tourism at all. Unless there's something very special outside the coach windows like the D&S or Alaska, most people wanting to take a train ride on a nice day with the family are interested in a fairly short, impulse-buy priced experience that will be fun but not boring when the kids exceed the limit of their attention span. Knowing you have 4 more hours stuck on a slow train with whiny brats isn't fun for anybody.

Cass wasn't set up to be a cash cow, but a loss leader to bring tourist dollars into its otherwise static region. I think it has done pretty well, but perhaps the region has developed more tourism venues now which lead to a rethinking of the purpose.......and whether a loss leader is still justified.

I'd really like to know what's going on without the smoke, mirrors and political crap throwing getting in the way.

dave

Here's a just-posted newspaper article on this:

http://www.wvgazette.com/article/201404 ... 19518/1101

I think poster thewvnetwork should tread carefully. As someone who does not live anywhere near Cass and has never been, my perception and that of several of my friends is that his political "mudslinging" is painting the Mountain State Railroad & Logging Historical Association (which I never heard of until now) as more of a political action organization than a railroad preservation organization. I would be interested to learn more about this association and what potential political agendas it may harbor under the guise of historical preservation. If political backdoor agendas are playing out as is suggested, are they not also possible behind the scenes of the MSR&LHA? We do, after all, reside in a land of more than one political viewpoint and party. He demands accountability of the perceived enemy of the railroad he professes to care deeply about, yet bristles at any inquiries regarding himself or his cohorts while also claiming to be above the need for grammatical reproach.

This discussion is very reminiscent of nasty local elections for school board where people fight over funding for the football field vs. laptops in the classroom vs. property taxes. It seems rather foreign here. Personal experience tells me that in the realm of tourist railroading, employees tend to tolerate more adversity, mistreatment, etc. than is generally accepted in other industries. Often times, working for a tourist pike may feel like every day is a Monday. But, the rewards are many to those who are so wired. Rarely, do people work at tourist railroads for the paycheck alone. They do so because of their love for the institution involved and for their brothers in arms. It would seem out of character for tourist railroad employees to quit on the place and people they care so deeply about because of a change in management.

In conclusion, let us all hope for the best for Cass and the other West Virginia tourist locations. Please do not, however, utilize this site as a vehicle to advance biased political agenda in the name of preservation. If you demand accountability, then expect it to be also asked of you.

As I said before, I haven't been to Cass in over 15 years, but spent quite a bit of time there the 14 years before that. Unless the nature of the organization has changed markedly in that time, the main purpose of Mountain State was similar to that of the Friends of the East Broad Top. That is, to serve as a volunteer auxiliary support organization to the railroad, to do those projects that there was not enough money in the regular budget for. Mountain State's most visible event has always been running the annual Cass Railfan Weekend, which has been their primary fundraiser. With that money they have, among other things, built and maintained the Camp One exhibit at Whitaker. To my knowledge, they have never been primarily a political organization. I'm sure any petitioning or lobbying they might do as individuals would only be in the service of helping to preserve the railroad and park.

I am semi-active in the MSRR&LA. I'm not a regular member, but do maintain a working relationship with their leadership regarding the Climax restoration project. What PaulWWoodring says is correct. It is a "Friends of" organization, and is focused on restoration projects and managing the "Railfan Weekend". It is not a political organization, and has no "dog in the fight".

I also feel that the MSRR&LA needs to maintain it's distance from the mudslinging.