Red Steam Loco Cab Roofs

Les Beckman · **Joined:** Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm **Posts:** 6471

Happened to notice that the recent thread on the running of restored WW&F #9 shows that the 0-4-4T has a red cab roof. Just saying.

Les

Atkinson_Railroad · **Posted:** Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:11 pm

I'm not apologizing ahead-of-time for bringing this topic uP again.
I know the track gang here will forgive me.

This thread continues to intrigue me. Having re-read the entire "battalion" of theories,
and researched some of the answers given among the crowd here, I'm reminded of how a
question is so often more important than the actual answer.
Hence, the foundation of most every Internet forum on the web today. QUESTIONS.
Questions spur thought and imagination.

So what have I come up with?

Nothing.

(Just like that prospector named Yukon Cornelius sniffing his pick axe for silver and gold.)

When I first saw this thread question, I looked over at a drawing my father rendered
a long time ago of a Pere Marquette 0-6-0 switcher hanging on my studio wall.
He had colored the locomotive cab roof... RED.
Did I ever have a reason to ask him why he had drawn the cab roof red?
Nope. And he's no longer around to entertain the question to, for his answer.

The next "thang" that came to mind was Henry Ford's "No Trains on Sundays" theme.
Followed by the reason why people painted their front entry doors red, and the
history behind that, (which is just as fragmented).

And so, a last snippet to add to this elusive topic.
I'm recalling an author researching the death of Abraham Lincoln. He searched for years
on what the president had ate for breakfast on the day he was assassinated. He knew
what Lincoln "may" have had for breakfast. Yet never discovered/found the actual answer.

Always enjoying the forum.

John

J3a-614 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:32 pm

Southern6482 wrote:

T7,

The famed 0-8-0 you mentioned was nicknamed "Dolly" and was the pride of engineer Charles Snyder. She was dolled up from front to back and became the subject of a Ron Flanary painting and subsequent write-up in Trains (attached). She, however, was not painted green. I've also included a shot of 6030 after she lost her "bling" and became just another CNO&TP switcher.

[/URL]

I can buy into the theory some were left primer red, but my railroad mentor John Farris said his railroad mentor, the late Flem Smith (open the Prince book and look at the "credits" by Prince), never once saw a red roof on the CNO&TP in our hometown of Georgetown, KY.

I am attaching a picture of a Lexington Herald article from 1926 announcing the arrival of the green PS4s. Clearly, the Southern wanted the media to know the tops of the tenders and cabs were indeed, green. The picture in a previous post of 6482 with a red tender top in ATL was well after she was demoted off the CNO&TP (thus why her Wimble is missing).

To the theory the SR logo on the cylinders indicated the locomotive was painted green, I submit evidence of an early CNO&TP mike in Louisville, KY. She's in her freight dress, but with a logo on the cylinder.

The theory there were green steam switchers is a new one to me, but I suppose it's plausible in major passenger terminals. I do own this photo from the late Flem Smith's collection. On the back of this photo in Shelby Lowe's handwriting to Flem he states this 0-6-0 6019 working Lexington Yard is "all dressed up like the big girls" ... Clearly she's trimmed out in gold and I believe she's still in black, but who really knows? I'm going to dig deeper in my collection to see what other pictures I have of Southern switchers and if you can tell one is a different shade than the others.

And in closing, I apologize for the shine/reflection on the photos. I took these with my iphone as I didn't have time to scan them in properly. All of these photos are from my personal collection.

WOW!! Take note of the newspaper story on the newly-delivered Ps-4, and note that it mentions driving wheels and other wheel centers are also in "rich Virginia green with gold leaf striping!" This is in contrast to the normal black running gear under a green boiler we are familiar with.

Now that would be something that would look really different!

Wonder how long that lasted before it was changed?

Mad_Dan_Eccles · **Joined:** Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:31 pm **Posts:** 1

The model of a Ps4 that is in the NS HQ now was finally assembled and painted by workers Finley shops in Birmingham AL and shows a green roof, so there isa third option. It may not hold true for all divisions and all places but I am inclined to think it may well be indicative of usual practice on the Birmingham Division , Mobile Division and Alabama Great Southern during the early thirties.

Concerning the question about how long the green wheels lasted my best guess is not later than about 1929 when the new train came along. The Southern Railway drawing for general service passenger engines - that is those not specifically assigned to and painted for a named train - is dated October 1927 and shows black wheels with gold striping, so it may have been quite early.

It's interesting that this article also mentions a couple of other details that differ from the later finish which most will have in mind when they think Ps4. The stack is stated to be green as well as the domes. How long would it stay that colour do you think?

The boiler jacket would appear to be polished iron - this is quite a late survival of a traditional finish on a new engine. (The earlier orders for Ps4s were delivered in black paint and did indeed have polished rather than painted cladding.)

Aidrian

Rick Rowlands · **Posted:** Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:49 am

rcw7585 wrote:

Now let's talk about the proper shade of green that all locomotive cabs ought to be painted.

So what exactly IS the correct shade of green?

crescent · **Joined:** Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:44 pm **Posts:** 12

Mad_Dan_Eccles wrote:

Concerning the question about how long the green wheels lasted my best guess is not later than about 1929 when the new train came along. The Southern Railway drawing for general service passenger engines - that is those not specifically assigned to and painted for a named train - is dated October 1927 and shows black wheels with gold striping, so it may have been quite early.

Aidrian-

This is the first time that I have seen a mention of black wheels with gold striping on Southern locomotives. Is it likely that the tires were actually painted gold rather than the white/imitation aluminum that prevails among Southern modelers and historians? It seems to me that gold striped tires and white/imitation aluminum running board edges would have clashed; does this October 1927 document indicate colors for other trim?

Mad_Dan_Eccles wrote:

The boiler jacket would appear to be polished iron - this is quite a late survival of a traditional finish on a new engine. (The earlier orders for Ps4s were delivered in black paint and did indeed have polished rather than painted cladding.)

I have also seen this assertion during other discussions of early Southern Railway locomotive paint schemes, but so far I haven't seen convincing evidence. Of course, we are limited to black and white photographs from this period. What have you found regarding the early black Ps-4's that shows that they had polished boiler jackets?

Very interesting discussion.

Dan

Red Steam Loco Cab Roofs

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