Southern Ps-4s allegedly planned for preservation

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:33 pm

Richard Glueck wrote:

It might have been "Classic Trains", counselor. Same company, different veneer.

"Oh, sorry, it wasn't the SOUTHERN that had cab-forward 4-8-8-2's............."

Richard Glueck · **Posted:** Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:38 pm

Meow!

mcgrath618 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:54 pm **Posts:** 231

Kevin Gilliam wrote:

Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:

And maybe I'm bragging or overconfident, but if an article had mentioned all three, I'm confident that in my decades of perusing the magazine (complete set for decades), I would have seen and remembered it.

I think you're chasing an urban legend.

I think you're right. I've never seen documentation to it either. Maybe there were some tentative plans. Maybe not. Given that 1393 was cleaned up for a display event in 1953 at Spencer suggests that if there were other Ps-4s for a possible donation, that engine was a likely candidate. You can probably narrow the field down a bit more by determining what was still around by mid 1953. Either way, if there were plans, they didn't happen and all of them minus 1401 were scrapped.

Consider ourselves the fortunate ones that 1401 survives in a good home and is better protected than almost any other display engine out there. We also have a "kissing cousin" in A&WP 290. Not quite a Ps-4, but very, VERY close. Fans of many other railroads that held on much longer than Southern did only wish they were so lucky.

Did the SOU steam program ever attempt to acquire 290 and gussie it up as a Ps-4?

LeoA · **Joined:** Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:30 am **Posts:** 312

Trains ran a big article about Ps-4's only a decade or so ago. One of the last big steam articles to grace the pages of Trains before 99% of the interesting steam articles got redirected to Classic Trains instead.

A trend that also has now all but eliminated any substantial content on diesel locomotives from the pages of Trains, with said content almost exclusively reserved for their annual Locomotive special issue (Which no doubt hasn't helped their subscription base for the parent magazine).

Trains said Bill Purdie tried for both the 290 and the now scrapped GTW Pacific that Dick Jensen owned, but that "contractually in one case, legally in the other, these two 4-6-2's have been unavailable to the Southern".

Kevin Gilliam · **Joined:** Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:28 pm **Posts:** 292

mcgrath618 wrote:

Kevin Gilliam wrote:

Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:

And maybe I'm bragging or overconfident, but if an article had mentioned all three, I'm confident that in my decades of perusing the magazine (complete set for decades), I would have seen and remembered it.

I think you're chasing an urban legend.

I think you're right. I've never seen documentation to it either. Maybe there were some tentative plans. Maybe not. Given that 1393 was cleaned up for a display event in 1953 at Spencer suggests that if there were other Ps-4s for a possible donation, that engine was a likely candidate. You can probably narrow the field down a bit more by determining what was still around by mid 1953. Either way, if there were plans, they didn't happen and all of them minus 1401 were scrapped.

Consider ourselves the fortunate ones that 1401 survives in a good home and is better protected than almost any other display engine out there. We also have a "kissing cousin" in A&WP 290. Not quite a Ps-4, but very, VERY close. Fans of many other railroads that held on much longer than Southern did only wish they were so lucky.

Did the SOU steam program ever attempt to acquire 290 and gussie it up as a Ps-4?

They tried in the 60s for 290 and were hit with a lawsuit. It did end up pulling a few mainline trips for both New Georgia on NS and a few NS trips in late 80s/early 90s.

mcgrath618 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:54 pm **Posts:** 231

Kevin Gilliam wrote:

They tried in the 60s for 290 and were hit with a lawsuit. It did end up pulling a few mainline trips for both New Georgia on NS and a few NS trips in late 80s/early 90s.

What was the plaintiff alleging? Did they try and make a fair acquisition of the locomotive or did they do something more sinister?

CA1 · **Joined:** Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:17 pm **Posts:** 246

Can you provide a source on the boiler diameter differences between the Erie K5 and Ps4/290?

Not at all doubting you, just have never seen a drawing etc with any difference in boiler diameter between the USRA heavy and a ps4. I mean sure, maybe 1/2 or 5/8 inch differences but that's pretty much negligible.

Kevin Gilliam · **Joined:** Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:28 pm **Posts:** 292

mcgrath618 wrote:

Kevin Gilliam wrote:

They tried in the 60s for 290 and were hit with a lawsuit. It did end up pulling a few mainline trips for both New Georgia on NS and a few NS trips in late 80s/early 90s.

What was the plaintiff alleging? Did they try and make a fair acquisition of the locomotive or did they do something more sinister?

Plan was to paint it green and basically make it into a substitute Ps-4. Seems as if A&WP, which was still an entity at the time, didn't like the plan.

Kevin Gilliam · **Joined:** Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:28 pm **Posts:** 292

CA1 wrote:

Can you provide a source on the boiler diameter differences between the Erie K5 and Ps4/290?

Not at all doubting you, just have never seen a drawing etc with any difference in boiler diameter between the USRA heavy and a ps4. I mean sure, maybe 1/2 or 5/8 inch differences but that's pretty much negligible.

Ed King did an article in Ties, which is the Southern Railway Historical Association magazine in the January-February 2002 issue. Went through the specs for all of the engines.