UK Heritage Railways Run Out Of Coal THIS YEAR?

Ed Kapuscinski · **Posted:** Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:21 pm

70000 wrote:

I think the current sourcing from Russia of coal by some UK preserved lines will now be coming to an abrupt halt.....

It'll be a small price to pay for the repudiation of bad actors.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:57 pm

Ed Kapuscinski wrote:

70000 wrote:

I think the current sourcing from Russia of coal by some UK preserved lines will now be coming to an abrupt halt.....

It'll be a small price to pay for the repudiation of bad actors.

Well, there HAD been Poland for locomotive coal--that WAS the "default" for British steam operations..................

And in the much larger international hydrocarbons market, this is merely a drop of a drop. It's going to be FAR more critical how much the price of oil and natural gas skyrocket, leaving people struggling to pay for heating, electricity, or car fuel to get to our operations.

If Poland still has coal to sell to the British, now we start watching to see how long before Poland is (once again) "annexed"........

70000 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:02 am

The current issue of Trackside Magazine has a news item (obviously written before yesterdays events) stating that the cost of a ton of coal has more than doubled over the past 2 years - from £120 a ton to £250-£290 a ton.
The remaining mine at Ffos-y-Fran in Wales was reported as ceasing production at the beginning of this month due to a failure of their coal washery plant. No more mining is taking place there and its just the remaining stockpiles to clear now.
A figure of £400 a ton was being banded about on one of the UK preservation forums in the last couple of days as the likely going rate for coal soon......
From memory, when Polish coal was used here in the past, it was of variable quality and produced rather a lot of smoke as well.
One railway has been reported as obtaining coal from Kazakhstan, of all places!

70000 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:16 am

This has appeared today.....
https://www.eastlancsrailway.org.uk/new ... pril-2022/
That is the first I've seen of any changes to operations on any of the UK lines, but it wouldn't surprise me if others follow suit....

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:01 am

New video by the Tallylyn Railway interviewing Chris Price of the North Yorkshire Moors Railway on the subject, about a 15-minute watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VraSUVfGyq8

Erich Armpriester · **Joined:** Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:16 pm **Posts:** 47

Very interesting to watch the video of two fellows from "across the pond" discuss the situation with coal as it stands over there. It was encouraging to hear some of their outside the box ideas to help preserve and interpret the history of coal, even if that means supplementing with an artificial substitute.

Their humor really gets me at times. I particularly liked the comment to the effect of humans some 200 years from now discovering this unknown, magical black rock that has tremendous energy generating capability. Hopefully we don't force our heritage and our history into such silence that things get to that point...

-Erich Armpriester

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Tue Mar 15, 2022 9:04 pm

70000 wrote:

I think the current sourcing from Russia of coal by some UK preserved lines will now be coming to an abrupt halt.....

You win.

https://www.thenational.wales/environme ... am-trains/

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:28 pm

All is proceeding as (grimly) foretold:

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-15 ... l-12589865

Quote:

More than 150 heritage steam railways in the UK are facing a potential "critical" shortage of coal, prompting some services to be cancelled or postponed as supplies dwindle.

The issue has arisen after the Ffos-y-Fran coal mine in South Wales ceased production in January, earlier than expected. It was the last of the UK mines which supplied coal suitable for steam trains.

The conflict in Ukraine has also meant that supplies of Russian coal have stopped, meaning some railways have only one month's supply left.

Chief executive of the Heritage Railway Association, Steve Oates, said: "Right now - as I talk to you - we're not sure where the next supply of coal is going to come from.
Gloucestershire Warwickshire Steam Railway (GWSR) services are currently running on coal brought in from Colombia

"So from that perspective, it is critical. There are a few railways that only have stocks to the end of May."

He added: "The issue is a challenge to our supply of lump coal. One is the end of mining the UK and the other is the horrendous conflict in Ukraine."

The association says it is in talks with the UK and Welsh governments about extending the life of some coal mines to maintain a domestic supply.

But the immediate solution involves shipping in thousands of tonnes of coal from abroad.

"We've been looking vigorously around the world for new sources of coal. Currently, we're looking at Australia, South Africa, Mozambique," Mr Oates explained.

"I think we'll be OK, but it's touch and go."

Across the UK there are more than 150 heritage railways, estimated to be worth around half a billion pounds to the UK economy.

Much more at the link.

adammil1 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:23 pm

What's wrong with West Virginia coal? Last I knew I thought Norfolk Southern still had the huge coral to ship transfer in Norfolk. Maybe some good Pocahontas coal could help?

adammil1 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:24 pm

What's wrong with West Virginia coal? Last I knew I thought Norfolk Southern still had the huge rail to ship transfer in Norfolk. Maybe some good Pocahontas coal could help?

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Sun Apr 17, 2022 7:39 pm

adammil1 wrote:

What's wrong with West Virginia coal? Last I knew I thought Norfolk Southern still had the huge rail to ship transfer in Norfolk. Maybe some good Pocahontas coal could help?

I cannot speak for West Virginia, but both the historical and current accounts I'm reading are that NO mine in Appalachia is currently running for anything less than trainloads of coal, usually under long-term contracts to major power plant utilities (who often own the mines outright). Carloads disappeared to trucks years ago.

I doubt the Heritage Railway Association, or any one steam railway in the UK, is either financially or logistically in the position to order and ship a shipload of coal, any more than any of us are able to purchase a tankerload or trainload of diesel fuel.

choodude · **Joined:** Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:58 am **Posts:** 327

adammil1 wrote:

What's wrong with West Virginia coal? Last I knew I thought Norfolk Southern still had the huge rail to ship transfer in Norfolk. Maybe some good Pocahontas coal could help?

What is the price per ton delivered to a UK Heritage Railway?

Brian

Crescent-Zephyr · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm **Posts:** 1799

choodude wrote:

adammil1 wrote:

What's wrong with West Virginia coal? Last I knew I thought Norfolk Southern still had the huge rail to ship transfer in Norfolk. Maybe some good Pocahontas coal could help?

What is the price per ton delivered to a UK Heritage Railway?

Brian

Probably competitive with the prices from Australia?

Becky Morgan · **Joined:** Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:22 pm **Posts:** 495

adammil1 wrote:

What's wrong with West Virginia coal?

It’s more complicated than it sounds.
Most of it is longwalled, so in addition to the contract problems ADM mentions, nearly all of it is pulverized at the headgate. There might be a small mine somewhere with a conventional miner working to mine house coal, or a time when somebody is driving entry and could possibly set up temporarily for bigger lumps a locomotive could use, but it’s a long shot that anyone would bother to try it.

We do have a small local supply yard that sells house coal. I’m not sure whether they’re getting it nearby or buying from Kentucky and breaking up the supply. If you want to see a good, brief video showing how Bailey Mine produced power plant feed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AYZG5n2VUA

Boilermaker · **Joined:** Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:47 pm **Posts:** 219

You'll have a hard time getting your Pocahontas seam coal from those mines in WV anyways- this year's production was already sold last fall. If you want it you need to get in line for your train load dug next year now.

That being said, it's not impossible to get by the truckload. It's a matter of how much you're willing to pay. There's still suitable coal out there that's not from the Pocahontas seams, and is available. For the foreseeable future that's what we will have to settle for.

Has anyone tried cutting their bituminous coal with cheaper and more available anthracite? Maybe 10%? In theory that would make the soft coal go a little bit farther, so long as you don't introduce enough anthracite to cause firing troubles. That does introduce the headache of sourcing and buying both types and then still having to mix them. Maybe it's more trouble than it's worth.

...not that any of this would help the steam groups in the UK, however. Has anyone heard rumblings of oil conversions there?