When they're turning the wrench the wrong way and wondering why it won't budge..................
When they're running a steam locomotive without water treatment until the critical gauge outlets block up with mineral deposits, AND they're offering public rides......
When they're not doing even the most basic track maintenance and still running trains for the public on rotted ties with missing spikes and weeds growing in them.......
When they're amassing a horde of "stuff" with no long-range plan for its maintenance and preservation while still calling itself a "museum".........
When any suggestions whatsoever to the current operator(s) are met with "don't tell ME how to run my museum/train!"................

Then, YES.

You then either just sit back and perch until you can pick over the carcass/remains, and/or you just hope and pray that whatever they do wrong doesn't end up coming back to bite you in the posterior, via tarnished reputations, declining interest in railroad history, or Draconian regulations imposed after that derailment/explosion.

Again, I grab the folding chair, table, and coffee mug and the "Prove Me Wrong" sign..........

(And, to be fair, I have seen one example where someone succeeded, at least partially--but we haven't seen any progress on WVN/Preston 2-8-0s 18 and 19 lately.......)

The limited successes I've had all came about because I tried treating people like people. Of course, it doesn't always work, but treating people like inferior dumbasses always fails.

You can try that all you want, use all the politeness, suggestion, and reverse psychology or whatever anyone can have at their disposal.

But the fact remains that people will NOT listen to someone telling them that a religion is simply a belief system and not an irrefutable "truth," or that Trump is an arrogant megalomaniac/Biden is a brain-addled, senile fool and does not belong in the White House (see what I did there?).

Here are three articles on the psychology at play:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... -the-facts

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... acts-fail/

https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/the ... ing-down-2

I have a nice selection of books by Michael Shermer (author of the second essay) and others explaining, among other things, not only how people do this, but also why people persist in believing such things in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence. I'm afraid that shelf will come in all too handy in this upcoming U.S. national election year.........

You can generally split the operations of the McMuseums into two groups. The ones who want to do better and are willing to listen to a new way, and the stubborn A holes who think they are already doing it right and the problem lies with others "It's the area we're in...young people nowadays, etc" or worse, they think they are a complete success.

The former group, they're probably going to have frayed nerves and fragile egos, they know it's not great but they probably have pride in what they have accomplished, but have been subjected to people telling them they are doing it wrong without much of anything constructive (ideas, money, LABOR) to fix it So you gotta go gentile on them.

The latter group is doomed. Check the obituaries, delinquent tax lists, ahead of the torch, and just pick up the important pieces when they fall.

Say it louder for us in the back Mr. Mitchell.

As was just said in the post above, either a person/organization IS receptive to change/advice/criticism/ideas or they are NOT.

A lot has to do with the approach to these entities, like Sammy said, you can't be an asshole. At the same time, however, that will not guarantee they will not be one in return. The ever pervasive character traits that cause to people and leadership to have the attitude of "this is ours, and who are you to tell us otherwise! We're still here, aren't we?! Now #$%^ off and go do your own if you can do it better."

These people and places are the "problems" in the industry that we pretty much can't fix, because they don't want to be fixed.

It's like another horse being led to the water....

Mr Mitchell, SIR, This is pretty much what I'm trying to tell you --- if you're not getting anywhere, maybe you might consider a different way of going about whatever it is that isn't working for you. I've actually, in the real world, had to tell plenty of folks that they're wrenching the wrong way. Guess what ?? My approach got through to them and we finished the job OK. I've also been told a few times myself.

You are indeed correct about the futility of trying to reason with religious fanatics. HOWEVER, I won't mention any names, but some religious fanatics contribute to railroad preservation in a meaningful way. Railroads don't exist in a vacuum --- they exist in society to the extent that they serve some kind of need for that society, which includes EVERYBODY.

Your earlier post, in which you suggested buying some paint for the Boy Scouts, and giving them some help with the correct paint scheme for the caboose they were painting, was RIGHT ON THE MONEY. I'd be willing to bet that was one of your successes. And the long list of examples you provided of instances where you knew better, but couldn't get anybody to listen, couldn't possibly have had anything to do with how you dealt with people, now could it ??

For the record, I'M NOT the one offering to do anything with the so-called "McRailroad Museums." I happen to know that I have the diplomatic skills of Sheldon Cooper, as in not harboring any headroom for utter balderdash and delusional thinking. Further, it's been ages since I was in the position to talk to any such projects. Most of the ones around me (here and back East) exhibit a good degree of competence, and at best are only arguably in need of management refocus. (Indeed, some would argue that one or two of the "professional" museums in my regions are in more need of "correction" than the minor collections.)
This discussion here is among the "converted." I'm certain no one who has any power or authority at any of the so-called "McRailroad Museum" is lurking here, or even knows where to find us.

The folks I have seen who have successfully pulled off "rescues" 1) were dealing with individuals, not collectives, and 2) had the diplomacy and audacity to be able to sell sand to the Saudis and snow to the Siberians while getting them to think it was THEIR idea all along. The West Va. Northern Consolidations. The "Lost Engines of Roanoke." Finally getting the EBT owners to transfer ownership. The "saves" from the ITM fiasco.

The target for such "discussions" should mostly be the ones that don't KNOW they are "railroad museums"--the local historical societies in depots, the county or college library that got stuck taking in the archives/stuff of the local car-building plant or short line when it closed, and/or got donated someone's "playhouse" caboose. The prevailing words tend to be "it seemed like the right thing to do at the time......" and they CAN be helped.

Before I let you have the last word in this discussion, which you do doubt will, please give me a chance to describe a case where I got my way by diplomatically telling somebody that they were doing it wrong:

Plus/minus 25 years ago The Sumpter Valley wanted to buy an original, complete tank car of theirs from the Black Hills Central, but they weren't getting anywhere with the negotiations. This made no sense to us, because the Black Hills Central was a standard gauge RR, with no use for this piece of equipment. Since I had managed to find and arrange the purchase and shipping from Guatemala of the tenders from the SVRy articulateds, they decided to give me a shot at this transaction. I made a few calls, then one of my friends called me back and told me to call Hill City and talk to the big boss. We agreed on a price, and I paid the BHC a visit, check in hand.

All went as planned, but the trucker we hired was the only guy near Hill City with an empty flatbed. He had never moved RR equipment before, and he wasn't a railfan or preservationist, he was simply Joe Big Rig needing a back haul. We set the trucks on his trailer, and he pounded wooden wedges under the wheels like you're supposed to, but he insisted on stringing the chains parallel to the centerline of his rig. I kept trying to tell him to cross the chains, but he wouldn't listen to me. We were starting to butt heads, so I needed to do something besides get into a screaming, yelling argument.

What I did was tell him that I knew he had a lot more experience driving his truck than I did, and that I wasn't going to argue with him about how he loaded it. Then I politely said, 'If you can bear with me for a minute, I need to make a suggestion that MIGHT keep all of our asses out of trouble." He calmed down enough for me to explain that I knew he was going to keep an eye on our shipment, since it was a built-up load. Then I said that if he noticed those trucks moving around, even though he had chained and boomed them down good and tight, he should try crossing the chains. Then I shook his hand, thanked him for his help, and wished him a safe and pleasant trip.

I spent the next 20 minutes drinking coffee with the BHC folks and exchanging pleasantries, before hitting the highway myself. Fifteen miles from Hill City I spotted our cargo highballing for Baker City. The driver had already stopped and crossed the chains. None of our asses got in trouble...

PS --- Did anybody see the episode of Young Sheldon featuring his efforts to enlighten the local railroad museum ?? It's a real side splitter, don't miss it....

Hmmm is that kind of like a preservation line that has a large part of it's track built with out tie plates, bragged about how it's the old way, strung no maintenance along until they put one on the ground. Maybe their leadership refusing to look at a track inspection by a class 1 railroad employees, refusing radios for year and then filling what little track is serviceable with so much random equipment...