When the Milwaukee 261 came to Steamtown for the grand opening, I believe they were able to run her straight across the table into one stall but of course she did not fit in the stall! If I recall, her bumb stuck out of the house maybe 20 feet?

Cheers!

Randy Musselman[/quote]

It wasn't quite 20ft, more like about five feet, but still quite an inconvenience, When we ran in Feb. 1996, we had a roll of heavy contractors plastic to cover the doorway to try to keep the heat inside the heated engine house. But even with that, one morning before our runs we found the steam heat pipe connection that had been installed on the back of the tender frozen solid because it was sticking out and we couldn't get enough heat to circulate into that little plastic bump.

The 261 did go straight across the turntable to get into her stall, but each time we wanted to turn it (I believe four times total during her stay there)
we had to separate the engine from tender and turn each one separately.
We had it down to about a four hour process, by the end.

Ed Selinsky

Thanks Ed for that reminder of what you guys had to go through a/c "historical correctness". And the far and away silliest part of that argument is that the rest of the Roundhouse doesn't remotely resemble what was there "historically"-not even close.
Oh well, when a carreer beaurocrat( especially one with a Piled High& Deeper degree) makes up his mind-that's it!!! Maybe someday they'll add the 100 footer in the back lot where it used to be in DL&W days????
Hope springs eternal!!!
Ross Rowland

There is something to be said however for constructing a brand-new "replica" turntable, to the original drawings, by the original manufacturer (American Bridge?) -- which is what I believe they did in Scranton. Pretty cool.

The discussions of Steam Town's turntable and why or who decided how it should be rebuilt need to end NOW. Further discussion of this subject will result in the thread being locked.

Randy Hees
Moderator, RYPN

[/b]

Another sacred cow. I am done with this site.

I dont understand the threat to lock this topic. Its a history lesson on why there is a 85ft turntable and not a 100 ft one at steamtown. This is a great topic if you haven't noticed the 4 pages of posters. Threaten to lock down numerous picture posts that do not pertain to things. It seems the topics that get the most out of everyone on here is either locked or deleted. Since I'm done with this reply maybe I'll post a link to a photo of a random gp-40 that has nothing to do with railway preservation.

Mark,

I am hoping you will look at the site at least once more, and reconsider. I know you don't know me from Adam (except for having met in Savannah briefly when you were helping with the boiler calcs on No. 30), but I would ask that you please not abandon RyPN over something like this. I realize that sometimes the moderators seem a bit heavy handed, but I honestly believe it is in the quest of maintaining a high quality, informational site related to preservation of all railway artifacts. I think that's what we all want. There are plenty of other discussion boards out there where verbal potshots (or the like) can be found or offered up. I'd prefer that RyPN not degenerate to that level.

I am not on the RyPN BOD, nor am I a moderator, nor do I wish to take on that chore, but I do think RyPN is an extremely valuable resource, especially to those of us who are involved with railway preservation, yet don't do it for a living. Your input has always been appreciated, and I hope that some day I will be able to get up to TVRM and spend some quality time talking with you and Tim. Meanwhile, I will share frustration with you, sometimes wondering why a certain thread is locked, or threatened with being locked, as is the case here.

I have on occasion become totally frustrated with a thread being "hijacked", especially when I have asked a question and the responses take the question off into an entirely different universe. That's pretty much what happened here, and I think Mr. Rowland had no intention of the thread going the way it has, but it did and the tone of some of the posts did start getting a bit negative/accusational. (I will hold my tongue here with regard to government waste, etc.) I don't think we need that here, and it really serves no purpose. I prefer to not have to wade through those sorts of discussions to get the meat of the information I may be able to use someday.

Anyway, I ask that you continue to offer up occasional "tidbits of wisdom" here and just ignore some of the negatives that are an inevitable part of an open forum such as this. As one who certainly has many more questions than answers, I thank you and every other poster on this board for all the assistance I have had from simply asking a question when I needed some information to help with a restoration. Thanks.

Respectfully submitted,

I understand scrap, unprepared, is around $100.00 per ton. What would the scrap value be of this locomotive?

Obviously it's worth more with parts removed, such as air pumps. But if bidding against a scrapper.....

I understand from reliable sources the 2100 is currently tagged "Non-Compliant".

Smokebox

Randy -

I have been following this thread with only mild interest, but your threat to lock the thread has gotten my dander up. My question is....Why?

Les

As I posted a couple days ago, before we were distracted with thoughts of locos dangling like sugar plums before our eyes, a web reference shows a T-1 to weigh 220 tons, engine and tender, empty. A quick Google search on "scrap steel prices" yields this info, "Iron Age Scrap Price Bulletin, Chicago Market, Low Alloy Plate & Structural, 2 ft. and Under" currently $326 / ton. 220 X $326 = $72,720, less cost to cut. Keep in mind that the loco is sitting in the absolute closest port to China. The danger here is not that someone will want to turn it into a mobile, but that Mr. Hu of Huflungdung Steel Co. Ltd. will be at the auction with his check book. Hu doesn't have to make it "2 ft. and smaller." They can do that in China where the pay scale is a bowl of rice a day.

440 tons not including the aux. tender equals 44,000.00 in my book. Don't think you could buy her for that. According to GPRR's accounting she is booked at 1.4M.

The "non compliant" issue I would like to know more about, please email me with what you have heard. I know nothing about this although it might be true, reason for asking is that I own part of GPRR.

Thanks
Mike

Please allow me to apologize for my rather strident posting on the Steamtown Superintendant who insisted on installing the short table. My comments were uncomplimentary and have no place on this valuable forum.
Let's all take a deep breath and recall how much we missed this site for the few days it was down recently.
Seems to me this is a unique resource for our industry and I will do my best to show that I respect that!
Thank you, Ross Rowland

I think the thread required moderation, however, there are times the problem is the poster, not the post, even if the thread is now thoroughly unrelated to the dispostion of the T-1 in question. Therefore, I suggest other posters expressing bona fide opinions be allowed to debate the merits, specifically the dimensions, of the feature in question.

However, the below quote represents yet the latest example in a consistent series of opinions, which are clearly inflammatory, predictable and tedious.

"Oh well, when a carreer beaurocrat( especially one with a Piled High& Deeper degree) makes up his mind-that's it!!! Maybe someday they'll add the 100 footer in the back lot where it used to be in DL&W days????
Hope springs eternal!!!
Ross Rowland"

First, Dr. Latschar is the antithesis of a career bureaucrat-he is now restoring Gettysburg to its 1860's appearance by removing the flora not then present-over the reflexive shock of "arbor zealots" in the NPS. Therefore this euphemism for his doctoral degree is gratuitously disrespectful and dismissive.

Second, the suggestion of restoring that feature is impossible due to the construction of the new police station in the general facility.

This morning had to post a moderator’s warning, when a member of the list flamed an institution. Flaming can’t and won’t be tolerated here. In the course of that warning, I threatened to lock the discussion.

I didn’t and still don’t intend to lock the discussion, as long as it is a discussion of Reading T-1’s, and turntables, their length and design. On the other hand, I do need the members of this board to refrain from discussion of the personalities behind both the original issues and the subsequent discussion here. While the messages of support are flattering, they do not contribute to the discussion of railroad preservation, and do have the effect of pouring gasoline on a fire, especially when quoting the original problem message.

This is a moderated discussion board. It will continue to be a moderated discussion board. If you are uncomfortable with the rules of this board there are lots of other railroad discussion sites on the internet.

With that said, back to the T-1, and other issues of railroad preservation.

Private messages discussing the board’s moderation policy are welcome.

Randy Hees
Moderator, RYPN Interchange

But 2100 is worth far more as an extant Reading 4-8-4. Surely in 2007, nobody is going to cut up an American treasure as scrap? Even selling her for a portion of the price to an operator who would make up the balance later makes far more sense! I hope the locomotive gods are smiling on this engine; she's my favorite T1.