Hi Rob,

No distress on my end, except due to the paint job on 790!



I've dealt with the same type of hoarders too, and in fact try to be a bit proactive with the NKPHTS and ICHS, at least in terms of gathering as much material as I can find. There are a lot of railfan packrats out there; you'd think that they'd enjoy having their egos stroked by becoming "the world's foremost authority on whatever", but they're happy to sit on their secret hoards like dwarves. I've been in basements full from floor to ceiling with nothing but hundreds of thousands of Form 19's that absolutely nobody knew about.

And we all know what happens to these hoards. Recycling.




Me too; we need to talk off-list! With the low price of digital memory storage these days ($100 for a terrabyte) it's fairly easy to digitize, store, and share whatever you need. I'm currently downloading railroad material off Google Books, and there are thousands of pre-WWII volumes up right now.

Moreover, I'm working as my own digital sharing database for NKP and IC material. Both historical societies have more material than I do, but neither has more digitized. They both know about my efforts, and use me as a quick way to pass material around! I'm also working with Allen Stanley, who has what's probably the world's largest database on American made steam engines. He shares whatever he has for free, and only asks that you occasionally share new material with him to grow HIS database. I do the same thing with my files, and I'm up to around 103,000 individual digitized items. I've got 32 gig's worth of flash drives in the mail now, making it's bi-annual round Robin trip to several friends, as a traveling IC database.



Honestly, I don't like this sort of idea at all. Give something to a historical society (without making a digital copy) and it goes into a vast black hole that you generally have to PAY to get into. Give something to an accredited museum, and it'll likely get lost, stolen or de-accessed. SHARING material with these organizations is just fine, and I do so all the time. But give them something outright and the three people in charge seem to think that it's THEIR personal property, rather than everyone's window to history. What we really need are more free databases like the Fallen Flags website, which is where I got my idea for free file sharing from in the first place, over a decade ago.

Just going to leave this here. (Taken the 6th)

Dan

Taken Saturday August 6th.

Dan

Bruce,

Part of the problem lies in the arrogance of the "educated" expert, if we're talking about the same person. In the past this person has had near carte blanche in deciding what paint "style" has been applied to certain pieces. See the green and tan Erie business car. Compounding the issue is the haphazard nature in which Steamtown equipment was painted over the decades in Scranton and in Vermont. Paint something enough times and someone's well intentioned yet off-the-cuff "close enough, better than nothing" paint job morphs into "historical record".

Ray knows what he's talking about and has verifiable information, so I do hope the park takes note of his evidence. One of Steamtown's major failings is that true railroad historians have not often been taken seriously, more often they have been discarded as foamers and loons (of which there are a few as well). Many people, including employees in house, have been able to give credible information on a number of restoration projects only to be turned away. I know this has turned off a lot of people who would be more than willing to help before the paint gets applied.

I keep hoping for some sort of independent, outside advisory organization that would enable the learned to provide their input in this type of situation.

Dave

I am far from an expert on the painting of IC steam locomotives but happened to be in McComb Mississippi yesterday...... and stopped to see the IC 2542. I thought given the recent conversation about the IC engine in Steamtown, can you draw any comparisons in the painting, lettering, colors etc on this engine versus the one in Scranton .

Thought some RYPN members might enjoy seeing another well cared for IC locomotive...and how it was painted and lettered. The volunteer group in McComb I believe should be commended for their preservation efforts. The attractive well maintained Illinois Central display, explains to current and future generations how important the Illinois Central was to the town of McComb MS.

Dean Levin

I always thought the lettering on IC steam was aluminum. The numbers on the two engines don't look correct to me, but I have no skin in the game.
I'm sick of all the "Experts" who know sooooo much! Ran into more than my share with the 1522. And Dave is correct, they all seem to be arrogant. Perfect recall of stuff that never happened.

I can't help but be reminded of the old story about the auto body shop.

Guy comes in, says he wants his vintage T-Bird repainted IF they can match the chip of paint he brought in from his first car. Shop owner, the son of the founder, turns it over to his paint guy, Peach, who spends half an hour trying in vain to match the chip to the customer's satisfaction. Show owner takes over, spends another hour trying and trying again.....

Owner's semi-retired father shows up....... "Matt, what's wrong?" he asks in the office.
"Dad, you gotta help here. We got this guy that wants a ten-grand paint job, but he insists on matching that one [bleeping] chip of paint, and Peach and I have been busting our balls now for nearly two hours trying to satisfy this guy's eyes!"
"Leave him to me....."

Ten minutes later, the guy is shaking the father's hand vigorously, talking with hi about painting another car as well, and departs with a roll-back driver to collect the T-Bird.

As they drive off, the son says, "Okay, dad, just how the [bleep] did you do that??"

"Simple. I had Peach distract him, and I painted the chip."

All done! Moving into the roundhouse.

Picture is from Dan Barnett.

She looks good, and certainly better than what she started out as. I thought this locomotive was a candidate for firebox repair? N/M, there are other locomotives on which I'd like to see them undertake heavy repairs. Good work, Steamtown.

So...no luck in trying to get the Feds to repaint her correctly? Oh well.........

So, did you pass on the "correct" information, paint diagrams/specs as requested months ago?

If not, I'm breaking out the Lionel Girls Train Hot Pink......

Yep; sure did: official drawings, written instructions, photos of 790 from the 1950s to the 1990s showing when and where the lettering got loused up and by who, and something like 40 color photos of IC steam showing the correct colors of everything from the tender deck to the front numberboard.

Didn't do a lick of good.

According to the first page of this thread the 790 had already been painted by Aug 17th when this information came to light. With money and manpower in short supply I think it is unrealistic to expect they would "sand-off" what had just been done, (literally) days before. Hopefully the specs you sent will be used the next time she is to be repainted.

I went through the same argument with the in-house indisputable expert in Springfield, MO who insists the Frisco 4-8-4 4524 had whitewalls and had the counterbalances painted white. Now along with that, it has the wrong style of numbers and other boo boos.
I'm getting too old for this crap.

Steve,

There is still some minor work to be completed on the 790.

Daniel