I just read elsewhere NRM has other equipment sold or on sale now, and a scrapping here or there. This move somehow now does not surprise me. NRM just is not an operating museum, similar to the VMT.

NRM may get a lump sum of money for the sale but as money goes, it doesnt last and you must work on your financialities in other ways. I hope the new owner is smarter for the situation.

I must be confused... is it Steamtown that owns one mothballed engine, and publicizes one hair-brained scheme after another to get someone else to pay for repairs that never pan out?


Yeah that's what I thought.

if they are a tax deductable non-profit, the "donator" can tax writeoff.

Damn! There goes my hopes for a renewed Burlington Hudson.

Richard

Keep the faith, I want to see and ride behind a Q Hudson in my lifetime. I'm out the door to buy lottery tickets, wish me luck!

Dave

Before I continue, I mean no offense by this, Wowak, but...

Why does everyone here hate on Ross Rowland? I admit I know very little but it seems to me he has accomplished ALOT in the area of steam excursion service that most of us could only WISH we had done. Do YOU own your own steam engine? Do YOU have any first-hand experience in dealing with the economics of operating steam? Could YOU do better than what Ross has done?

I think Mr. Crosby summed it up well as a "drive by attack by a supposed professional." You wouldn't find Kelly Anderson on here criticizing Andy Muller, or Doyle McCormack taking pot-shots at Tom Payne, but for some reason Ross has free reign to criticize Steamtown N.H.S. and no one bats an eye. Also, as I've said before, I tend to lend more credence to those who have actually run steam in the last 20 years.

Personally I look forward to Ross's "tell all" book, which should be chapter after chapter of exploits in getting other people to pay for his toys, as well as several more recent chapters of failures to trick others into paying for his toys. I wonder if there will be a chapter about his being asked to never return to the property of a steam-operating road?

Just as I am not much interested in Steamtown bashing, neither do I have any desire to read Ross bashing on this forum. I'm not a moderator, nor am I, in fact the site administrator, but I do provide the services to RyPN that enable it to exist at no cost, and for that I would expect a bit more civility. I don't want our resources provided to enable intrapersonal warfare.

Please tone it down.

Regards,
Doug

Steamtown is what it is and Ross is who he is. Both have done much with OPM. Steamtown being an entity but not an individual is incapable of expressing an opinion, Ross being both can and does. I'm interested in reading what he has to say, just as what Steamtown would have to say if it could say anything at all, much more interested than publications of those who have done nothing with OPM or their own M.

Lack of experience isn't the basis for having good stories to tell.

And, BTW, I have heard some highly illustrative denegration of PRR shop practice come from highly placed Strasburg people. I still respect Strasburg as an industry leader, and never did have a lot to say about PRR trivia, so it was simply good information from a credible source from my POV.

dave

You still did not answer my questions...

Do YOU own your own steam engine? Do YOU have any first-hand experience in dealing with the economics of operating steam? Could YOU accomplish what Ross has done?

Unless you are on the level of people like Andy Muller, Steve Sandberg, or Doyle McCormack who have considerable experience operating and maintaining steam engines, and unless you have accomplished just as much as Ross, or are even aware of HOW to accomplish what he has, then who are you to take a condescending tone towards him? Seriously.

One, he is human. Two, he is an American, to whom the First Amendment gives the Freedom of Speech. ...Seriously.

You're taking this waaay unnecessarily off topic.

The 1st Amendment also applies to me, thus I also have the right to inquire what his motives are. I've seen so many people bashing Ross Rowland and I could never understand why. I just want to gauge the credibility of his criticism, that's all. If you don't like what I'm writing then there's a little button on the top left of your browser called the "Back" button that you have every right to use. :-)

Frankly I think we are getting off track here and not sticking to the subject of the thread. Ross or Steam Town are not the subject here. The revival of 261 is. I firmly believe that "putting the word out" on unsafe operations should be something that we all take a vested interest in, because of the implications such an operation would have on the rest of us. Bashing another person for their perceived deeds and/or calling them out in this instance does nothing to further the mission. We do have a First Amendment right to say what we will,but we must also temper that with good judgement and discretion. It was this kind of broadsiding (involving this same individual) which almost resulted in the destruction of the very board,which I feel is the BEST place to discuss and learn from others in this profession. I implore us to not go down that road again.

I'm not Wowok, and this is getting too far off topic, but let me reply with a multi-pronged defense.

I don't have to own an automobile to pass judgment that it's being operated unsafely or running with a defective engine--the pedestrians being run down on the sidewalk or clouds of smoke out the tailpipe will tell me plenty. And I don't have to own a horse or dog to tell that one is being poorly cared for--mangy hair, ribs sticking out, an inability to walk, etc. will do that.

Rowland, because of his by-now-notoriously bombastic and grandiose behavior and words--here and elsewhere--has made himself a lightning rod for criticism. He has proposed four or more major steam tours or operations with 614 since the Chessie Safety Express; two (Yellow Ribbon Express and 21st Century Limited) did not come off, one gave some fans some cool steam freight shots in 1985 but was revealed by one of the participants (David Wardale, in his book) to have been all but a sham excuse to play trains with steam; and the NJ Transit runs ran but have never been duplicated for good reason. I'll let others do the criticisms, but by and large they are as valid as his criticisms of Steamtown and other operations. Because Steamtown NHS is funded by his tax dollars and those of most of the rest on this forum, it is open to criticism by just about anyone, and especially taxpayers; furthermore, the laws of government employment generally restrict those collecting government paychecks (see also emplotees of the Ca. State RR Museum, North Carolina TM, RR Museum of Pa., etc.) from proffering public statements regarding their employment or operation. (As another example, many such employees are not allowed to offer any kind of appraisal of an object's value, even colloquially or casually, lest it be deemed an "official government evaluation".) Thus, Rowland can dish it out, and NPS just has to take it. Furthermore, as valid as Rowland's criticisms of Steamtown may be, he has managed to drone on it as repeatedly over the years until becoming as wearisome as a bagpipe-band tuning session, never missing an opportunity to throw more figurative mud at them no matter how convoluted the discussion path to do so may be.

In response to the overly public style adopted by Rowland, however, I would say that he is fair game for equally incisive and biting criticism of the type he dishes out, as a "public" figure. For starts, I would love to hear the reception that would greet any mainline steam operator that might be clueless enough to propose to NJ Transit a season of Port Jarvis steam excursions similar to what Rowland did in 1997, now that NJ Transit has learned from experience...........

There's one other VERY sore spot with him amongst long-time regulars here: After a particularly heated round of back-and-forth criticisms some time ago, Rowland threatened legal action against the operators and administrators of this website, some of whom bailed and tried to take down/disband the website simultaneously. Braver souls with better nerves rescued and revived this site and forum, and ever since Rowland's presence has been tolerated at best by some, and openly opposed by many more. It may be a little stretch to say "he tried to get RyPN shut down" as some would say, but in the minds of many, the near-elimination of this resource basically completely negates any "wonderful things" Rowland has supposedly done for the rail preservation field.