Not entirely about Ross, but the industry in general......

The essence of the producer's job is making big plans and actively seeking support in order to carry them out and ulltimately result in an event. No point making big plans if you keep them secret because if nobody knows, nobody can support it.

Somebody in the film industry can chime in here and tell us about how many scripts get circulated but never find resources to reach production - I'm thinking somewhere in the low single digit percentages. Likewise live stage productions - I ran a theatre company that produced a contest for a new play each year and we got 40-50 submissions for a very low budget, almost staged reading level production, with purposely minimal publicity because we didn't have the time to even read any more scripts much less give them fair consideration.

Steam excursions are entertainment events. They need to be produced as such, and sold as such. Criticizing any producer for acting like a producer is simply so wrong on every rational level it merits no consideration.

We NEED more showmen of steam excursions, not people who keep plans secret so they get nowhere. We'd know more about those that failed on that account except nobody knows because nobody knew they were even being tried, so no quantifiable basis for comparison in any case. Make BIG plans that appeal to everybody else (not railfans, since we will show up anyhow to tell you what you are doing wrong but not provide adequate financial support to cover production costs) and trumpet them to anybody and everybody that might find them worthy of investment, and you're doing your job. If the vision is captivating enough, and the business plan supportable, and not enough better competing plans are being circulated at the same time, you will be a success.

dave

Dave,

Great point. Perhaps this is why I am not bothered as much as others, as the entertainment industry has been my home in one way or another for 20+ years. I am used to big ideas that never quite get off the ground. You expect those while you are on your way to making "the hit."

And I also think of RER Jr as more of an entertainer. He has the larger than life personality (and dreams) of a showman. That makes him somewhat unique.

I understand where someone like CP is coming from, much more than other bashers. You might really be on to something...

The preservation field is filled with nose-to-the-grindstone folks who seek consistency and regularity. And often the best minds belong to rather shy fellows. And there is nothing wrong with that, in any way, shape or form.

The showman is not of the norm. Ross is a showman, and always has been.

Perhaps what I take to be sour grapes is somewhat of a lack of understanding... trying to shove a square peg in a round hole. It's different, so it gets judged loudly and quickly.

And maybe I am guilty - not of hero worship - but of clinging to the past. Ross is the last of the original steam entrepreneurs still out there trying to get something on the rails. All the others (Hart, Hubbard, Blount, et al) are at the throttle of the train to glory. Ross is still trying to make something happen in this world. I have to respect that.

Rob

I tend to agree with the nose to the grindstone theory. These are the folks behind the scene that really makes these things happen. As mentioned, they are quiet but "get er done". That said, they aren't always the ones who are able to take the finished product and run with it. Most groups need someone who can "work the room", schmooze folks and get the engine out the gate.
We were fortunate in the SLSTA in that we had a hard working, roll around in the dirt crew who got the job done, often under really crappy circumstances. Their only reward was when we were on the road they came along. I enjoyed the ultimate payback along with two others as engineers.
We also had a great example of a schmoozer who made many more things happen for us than the troops ever knew of.
Everybody just quietly doing their thing (except the engine didn't do it quietly) and being thankful for the opportunity.
Announcing grandiose plans never worked well for us, as it doesn't for most small groups.
We will see where it goes from here.
Dizzy Dean once said "It ain't braggin if you done it".

As I respect the caliber of most of the participants on this forum I purposely share ideas that are in the formative stage as I often get constructive variations on the main theme which sometimes help move it along.

I do this despite knowing that the 4 or 5 habitual negatoids will chime in with their snarky negativism as evidently they've got nothing better to be doing.As I've often counseled,just ignore them, and let's keep trying to do what we can to give life to mainline steam whenever/wherever we can get all the pieces to come together.

I do appreciate your ideas and support.


Ross Rowland

I'm not so sure I believe that explanation. If you were limiting discussion solely to RYPN, I might buy that. However, you do have a history of whipping the fanatics up into a frenzy on every forum you can find, which is much different than seeking input from your peers.

Other posters have likened it to the movie production industry, which isn't a totally accurate comparison. The producer is typically the money man for the studio, who buys an idea (the script), and then goes about making it into a movie. They usually don't go around proclaiming to the world that a project is going to be the next Hollywood blockbuster, when all they have is an unfinished 10-page treatment or synopsis. In most cases, the industry doesn't even blink if a completed script is purchased ... it takes a much firmer standing with the studio before Variety, or any of the other trade publications, considers it newsworthy.



Right ... if you can't refute the message, attack the messengers and then claim you aren't listening. Good job of ignoring your critics. :-)

Thank you Mr. (or Ms.??) O'shea for perfectly illustrating my point.

Ross Rowland

And thank you Ross for proving his. Ahhh RYPN!

You might be surprised how often that happens.

With most films, the "idea guy" is not the financial backer. The creator gets the idea, tries to make it exciting enough to entice investors (executive producers, studios etc...) and then it flies or it doesn't. Most times it doesn't.

In the entertainment business, this the way it goes day in and day out. Failed ideas are part of the process. In the railroad preservation world, failed ideas seem to be grounds for castration.

If the "idea guy" always has to be the "money guy" you aren't going to see a lot of films... or new products... or technological breakthroughs...

When new ideas meet investor dollars, I consider it a good thing.

Oh how I wish some people would just quit the bitching and moaning that goes on here. It makes people not want to contribute or read to these discussions. :(

I, for one, am getting tired of it all...

It may be indeed tiresome, but the fact remains that there are lots of folks on rail forums and trackside that want to see the "glory days" of the Reading Rambles, 5629, 5632, 759, 2101, 610, 614, et al brought back, or at least not have to travel to the Cheyenne area to experience the rare outings by the one player still actively in the main-line game.

It's never going to happen unless we discuss--rather openly--what the obstacles are, and how they can be overcome--if at all. Money, or the lack thereof, is a major factor (including the sidebar problem, insurance and litigation), but it's not the ONLY factor.

Rowland certainly has a great idea, and is to be applauded for at least thinking outside the proverbial box. But I share "O'Shea's" skepticism, for exactly the same reasons he has reiterated. I'd instead feel a lot better if 614 or any other such big loco quietly were shunted to a major shop, evaluated, and eventually rolled out under steam, with someone announcing a partnership trust with 30 "silent partners" that would quietly be leaked over time as, say, Neil Young, Jerry Jacobson, Michael Gross, Bill Gates, or whoever showed up for discrete "quality time" with private excursions, an Army-Navy Game special, etc.