If steam doesn't matter, then the public didn't care what was pulling the train on the recent Amtrak specials from Philly to Harrisburg via Reading over NS. It sold out in minutes. Some of the 765 and 630 runs on NS sold out too in a short time frame but if even a diesel powered Amtrak train can sell out that proves that steam wasn't the draw for that trip. It was the rare freight only mileage that cannot be normally ridden unless you're an NS employee.

Not all trips are created equal.......those targeting a small market of enthusiasts have nothing to do with those targeting a larger audience who are not already singing in the choir. Don't think from a foamer's perspective, but get the advice of people who are truly ambivalent about trains for the sake of trains, and solicit their level of interest between a ride behind diesels on lines that are not in general passenger use and any other option that might have for entertaining themselves on any particular day. If rare mileage trips attracted constant crowds of thousands, they wouldn't be allowed to remain rare mileage.

dave

"The Cardinal question is/was ....does steam justify the incremental cost ( 20-25%) it adds to the operating side of the ledger by attracting sufficient additional revenue that would not be had without it??"

With the plunging price of oil, and the regime's war on coal, this incremental percentage will be going up.

Of course, fueling up @ Costco last night @ 2.70 and being happy about the price tells me how our expectation space has been distorted in recent years. (Well, that and the complete lack of experience with the satisfying throaty growl of a big block V-8 that could give you whiplash if you drove while wearing a heavy shoe that day.)

Of course, I'm not sure the quoted cost is accurate, given the posters historical grasp of energy markets and the attendent politics.

See Item no. 1


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26533&p=119488&hilit=Obama#p119488


Perhaps somebody with more contemporaneous experience with both steam and diesel operating costs can provide some comment.

Aren't there some R&N employees on here?

"Four pages deep now. The original question was answered, why are we still going on about something completely different."

Status quo.

I remember Mark Bassett of the Nevada Northern saying that their figures showed that steam had twice the cost, but brought in three times the revenue. I think that was in an Ely Times article.

-Mark

Because it is a worthwhile topic and it should be discussed. I know the topic has been discussed before, but you can't run a business on conjecture and this is exactly what is being done. We need actual market research, and we might need to educate customers. Potentially there is a great opportunity for change and improvement here, but I think it has yet to be realized. I'll start a new thread, "Merits of operating steam vs. other motive power at railway museums and tourist railways" and we can continue the discussion of this topic there

Steve

Mr. Rowland, not all of the new generation is lost to the cause.
On The Branford Electric Rwy. Ass'n. - Shore Line Trolley Museum's Lionel Train Layout for the Holidays, one of the routes alternates Thomas the Blue Tank Engine with James the Red Engine. James needed repairs and was replaced with Diseasel. The children knew the difference and complained.

or maybe since you know this thread doesn't interest you any more, ignore it....

Earlier comment reflects on the influence of "Thomas" on young children. Whether little ones understand steam propulsion or not, the inoculation of steam locomotive design absolutely is reflected at every steam meet and tourist railroad. The "Thomas" influence has dedicated an entire toy store to that character at Strasburg. When I fire my 1.5" scale Reading 0-4-0, I constantly hear "just like Thomas". Steam operations make a difference, and continue to bring young interest to our railroading world.
Children are perceptive and throw their heats and minds into what they love.