The lock downs should have presented an opportunity for the backshop to catch up, not the other way around. As far as SNHS re-entering the tourist market, they have the full might of the federal government behind them if that becomes a priority. They can run an empty consist all day, every day and never shut their doors. It comes down to will, or the lack thereof.

I also find the 4 operational locomotive portion interesting, although we'll never see it unless management changes. By the time the 3713 is finished, the 26 will probably be up for its 1,472 at this rate. Even if they managed to get 3713 finished and start on something like 3377, by the time those two are running, 26 will need its inspection. By the time that's done, 3713 will need its inspection, so it'll be an endless cycle between the 2-3 locomotives. Even having 2-3 run eat Steamtown is better than the 1, so I'm not complaining. Unless they get the funding or motivation to pick up the pace, we'll never see that original goal of 4.

Can Steamtown ask for donations? I remember being there a little while back and never saw any place to make a donation. With the 3713 restoration, I haven't really seen any website out there that's being shared around to donate towards the 3713. I've contributed collectively thousands of dollars in the last 5-6 years towards restorations, so I wouldn't mind tossing some towards the 3713, or the 3377 if that project really is in the works.

Fellow steam lovers....you're forgetting one huge fundamental point here. Steamtown was created by Cong. Joe McDade primarily to be a jobs creator for the very economically hurting Scranton area. It has achieved that function well by providing lots of high paying ( by Scranton area standards) jobs for nearly 30 years now.

The vast majority ( 95% +/- ? ) of its annual federal subsidy ( now around $ 6.5M/year) goes to payroll/utilities/facility maintenance with payroll being the biggest by far.

Precious little is left over for keeping mainline capable steam locomotives running never mind funds to enable actual restorations to service.

The other never to be forgotten factor is incentives. Everyone on the Steamtown ( NPS ) payroll gets paid EXACTLY the same if there's an average of 5 visitors a day or 500 or 5,000. There's actually a perverse incentive to hope for low attendance as fewer visitors = less problems.

As I've often posted unless there is an outsourcing to a capable private sector DO this will never change.

Sad but true. Ross Rowland

The Lackawanna and Wyoming Valley society had a page on their Project 3713 website where donations could be submitted, but since the partnership with them and Steamtown seems to have been severed, this page is no longer active and donations can no longer be submitted.

John

Yes.

“Donations can be directed to the general needs of the national park system or a park, in support of a specific program or project. Donations to the National Park Service are tax-deductible under section 170(c)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code.” - from the NPS website.

From the Project 3713 website

What was interesting is that for years, there's was a plexiglass caboose in the visitors' center that solicited donations for restoration. I have no idea who collected the money or where it went. Sometimes, a quick survey of the contents (fixed, thanks, anonymous) would show some tens and twenties, but I've never seen an accounting for the proceeds or a depository account established for them.

I would no more send a donation to the NPS for general purposes or for a specific project than I would to the Treasury for "relief of the public debt".

Why? Because it's not going to change anything. Money is fungible and even if you donate six figures, it won't do anything other than to cause the pawns to be rearranged on the board. As to the donation for specific causes; money is still fungible. You donate to a specific causes, there's no segregation of funds, no trust or custodial device, no periodic accounting.

Now of course, when they talk about "specific projects", don't get the idea that you are going to walk in to the Superintendent's office with a checkbook and say I have an idea (that's not on their list) and I'd like to write you a check. Would a cool mil work for starters? The whole Raison d'être of the NPS is that they are "experts" who are to operate units with superior knowledge about objectives such as necessity, priority, significance, relevance and factors of operation. I think, but cannot test the thesis that if I won a jackpot lotto and said I'd like to fund the restoration of NKP 759 and the acquisition of land to install a turntable, I think the NPS would say "but that's not in our plan". No bureaucracy is going to cede control.

So, as a general rule, fundraising is to be done by supporting organizations. That was one of the objectives in establishing the IHS. There's a difference between accepting donations and fundraising.

Unfortunately, I was recently informed that the relationship between the park and its friends' group isn't very friendly at the moment.

Preface: If you are not interested or not addressed, please feel free to treat this as TL; DR and pass without comment.

So, starting where I think we agree, that there is a problem and the NPS is largely responsible for it and doesn't have the institutional competence to address it, my absence makes me question a lot of things, the first being upon receiving the property and collection, why wasn't the first order of business the protection and stabilization of the locomotives and rolling stock?

Instead, much of the initial construction costs were devoted to (re) erecting the roundhouse for interpretive displays. Composed of three separate sections, the "culture" museum is unbelievably bad, with its composite statuary "tycoon", "immigrant", etc. Anybody that tries to gleen some knowledge about the place and effect of railroads in society by walking through that part of core complex is probably dumber for the effort.

Had some simple sheds been constructed, the collection would have protected and much of the degradation that proceeds almost invisibly, but inexorably would not have occurred, and perhaps some cosmetic stabilization/restoration could have been completed.

The argument was that erecting new building would diminish the historical aspects of the site. Well, having a roundhouse with statues, locomotive appliances, repeating videos, etc.

I suspect that no private operator would be willing to accept an operation contract, simply because there's a huge part of the site that provides costs, but aren't going to generate revenue.

And of course, Scranton is a dying city, so the prospects of enough population density are pretty much nil.

I'm glad to report that as sad a story as Steamtown/Scranton is around the corner in nearby Jim Thorpe one can witness the exact opposite playing out 7 days a week year round.

Thanks in part to efforts mounted by Andy Muller's Lehigh Gorge Scenic RR the town is alive with tourism and filled with vendors of all types catering to the crowds.

I was one of about 1,000 happy passengers aboard the Sat. July 2nd. excursion powered by ex.Rdg. T-1 2102 that originated in Reading, Pa. and used Jim Thorpe as its destination/service/turn around location. We were there for about 3.5 hours and the town was wall to wall with visitors happily spending money eating and visiting various tourist attractions.

Is there some degree of apples/oranges when comparing Steamtown/Scranton and Jim Thorpe? Yes some, but the major valid point is that if you offer a valid attraction the folks will come. Look at the LGSR website and you'll see excursion trains running 7 days a week from now until years end. I'm told that on average they haul about 800-1,000 folks weekdays and between 1,800-2,000 weekends. This in addition to the many weekend days that a 2102 or diesel powered excursion arrives from Reading.

If Steamtown devoted a sufficient portion of its $ 6M annual subsidy to keeping 2 mainline capable steam engines reliably in service and offered frequent steam powered excursions to the Delaware Water Gap or Moscow would its paltry visitorship substantially improve ? The answer of course is, yes.

Will that ever happen ? The answer of course is, NO.

Sadly a fact. Ross Rowland

Ross, before you run two mainline steamers, you need to be able to field two crews:

https://www.nps.gov/stea/planyourvisit/conditions.htm

If only there was a solution... like hiring more people. :-p

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse in Scranton it got worse.

Happily the private sector is answering the call of all those who want to experience a well run passenger railroad only a few miles away in Jim Thorpe and with a little planning can experience a mainline steam locomotive hauling a full tonnage 18 car long train ( which includes 10 open window coaches and you're allowed to stick your head out of the window and stand in an open dutch door!! ) over the mountains between Reading & Jim Thorpe.

Scranton is sadly destined to always be what its been........a classic gummit failure.

IMHO-Ross Rowland

Deleted some of the unnecessary bickering.

Except that's not the problem, nor the solution.

Steamtown's operating crews have been mostly volunteers, especially on weekends. Even at the peak, when there was seven or eight paid "T&E" staff, there were about fifty "active" volunteers, active defined as working a day at least monthly. Volunteers would usually work on weekends, first because that's when the excursions ran and they generally weren't at their employment, and second to allow paid staff to have normal Sat-Sun weekends at least once in a while. In the late 90's, it was something of a tradition for most of the Saturday crews to have dinner together after everybody cleaned up-we'd often call ahead with a reservation for fifteen. Usually at least ten were volunteers.

With operations limited to weekends now, there's not going to be a need for seven fulltime employees.

Ideally there would be a full time operating staff that would allow for trains to run 7 days a week and 2 trains on weekends. That would mean 2 x engineer, fireman, and conductor minimum. That would be a full time operations staff that could be supplemented by volunteers as available.

That really should be the minnimum for an operation like Steamtown.