If the goal is to make money they should get out of the mainline steam business. Impossible to actually make money doing that haha.

The goal is to be 1.) sustainable and then ideally, profitable 2.) Somewhere in there you also hope to "thrive."

The more net revenue you generate, the more, ideally, you can support your mission and strategic plan. What's that phrase that gets tossed around in our industry? "If an organization wants to make a big pile of money running a steam engine, start with an even bigger pile of money." Of course, the "capital" expense of restoring a locomotive is way different than the operational/program expenses. Every mile we run with the 765 includes a percentage that gets charged to ourselves and then relayed back to a long-term maintenance fund.

There seems to be a throughline in some of these comments that is almost aghast that organizations would...want to...thrive? I don't get the pearl-clutching. You can make a little money running a steam engine, but what happens when you need to acquire and overhaul a passenger car? Or when a wheel truck needs to be rebuilt or install a bathroom in a coach? Or when you need to repaint your station? Suddenly you wish you'd made more money to expand your capacity to run the business. Or ran trips with diesel. Or partnered with other groups. Or diversified your income streams. Or found sponsors/donors to cover the costs for one of your free or subsidized programs.

And speaking of fundraising, we're almost done fundraising to restore an SD9 so we can run more trips next year, at less expense than if we ran the steam engine, for a little lower price. Donors and sponsors want to give to projects that will equal a return on investment. If a donor or benefactor gives X amount to acquire a passenger car, and that passenger car generates $8-10k a day, they would be ecstatic. Fundraising may not be the whole business plan, but it is an important lever.

I'm not sure I understand ascribing negative intent to rail preservation and outreach activities or trying to reduce things down to "greed." Greed implies a selfish desire for wealth. These are your fellow museums and operators you're talking about. Not Wall Street.

If you think the cost is too high then go to one of the other operations offering throttle time on a N&W J class engine at a lower price.

Or… if you see multiple complaints about your high costs, as an organization you should consider why people are making those comments and compare prices with other operations.

Seems like only a minority are complaining and not enough to take notice of. I'm constantly baffled by your comments. Locomotives such as the 4014, 4449, 611, 261, etc are in a class of their own. So, you would recommend dropping the price point to meet your own expectations of what an engineer experience costs at a local railroad museum? You do realize that these experiences sell out quickly, correct? You act as if non-profits should bow down and offer free experiences, as if they were an extension of welfare. CZ, I think they should appoint you director/GM/CEO of a tourist railroad or museum! Be sure to give us fair warning before the auction starts. Thanks.

Yes. You seem particularly upset with my posts. I’m not asking anyone to bow down or lower their prices. But the usual response from operators and members is very defensive with little to no consideration for the actual complaint.

I’m not in the market for the in-cab experiences, I AM in the market for the Lerro charters and I think those are actually a little on the cheap side!

What would you like to hear?

Just for kicks and giggles we could start a pool to guess what next years price will be if these time slots sell out at $ 900. My WAG is that with the Covid issue fading, and lots of other steam events ( 1309,2102/425 etc.) competing for the entertainment dollar that there will be many unfilled slots this go round. Hope I'm proven wrong.

Anyhow if they do all sell out what's your guess as to next years price?? Mine would be $ 1,350.00 which would be the same percentage increase from $ 900 that $ 900 was from $ 611.

Time will tell.. Ross Rowland

Having never seen 614 steam, I'd love to ride behind her at Strasburg.
Just saying, not challenging.

You ever organize a History making mainline excursion across the USA? Not challenging. Just saying. ;)

I was pleased by how accessible those prices were and how they'd smartly broken things down over mornings, afternoons, and the night photo event. There's a ticket with my name on it just in case my schedule allows. I may not even take a photo.

UP has never been about revenue from excursions, it's a company PR operation. They could do a 1472 out of petty cash.

As for 611, they just had a fair amount of work done at Strasburg, and I don't recall any begging and pleading for money to get the repairs completed. It would appear they're using the revenue to fund operations and maintenance. Isn't that how it's supposed to be done?

Gee…. Maybe that’s why I typed “not counting UP” - you think? :-p

UP isn’t using “petty cash” for its steam program, it’s a major investment and it indeed loses money for the company. A great example of operating steam for reasons OTHER than making money.

You know, for years (maybe decades) now, I've heard the wailing of fans, the gnashing of teeth, the rending of t-shirts over the supposed sky-high prices of tickets to concerts of noted superstars of rock music--The Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, Kiss, The Eagles, Paul McCartney, and most recently Bruce Springsteen (certain tickets in the four-figure range).

So far, I've yet to hear of any of these concerts being canceled for lack of sales............

(By contrast, however, I've yet to see video of anything more than a half-full major-league baseball stadium so far this season.....)

Rail preservation is not like folk music, where the people in charge at least pretend it's supposed to be accessible to all. We don't all get to ride the private car or behind UP 4014 or on the rare-mileage trips.

The compromise is supposed to be that the "common folk" at least get to see the tour cars and UP 4014 on its layovers, or get to see the PV on display to the public at special events. (If you're operating an exclusive private car operation as a "nonprofit" while never displaying your car to the public, I have a problem with your accounting practices....)

The last round of 611 events in 2019 appeared to be pretty successful. The first two days of photo events sold out literally within hours, and another full day was added. I attended the first two days and got a lot of good images. I’m assuming that 611 will again be featured with a freight train, although the offering does not specify. That is really key information. If I were arranging it, I would probably place the newest period freight cars at Strasburg at the front of the consist, as many of the cars in their collection are significantly older than 611.

I notice that all of the upcoming events still have availability. I’m thinking that the schedule, not the price, likely is playing a more significant role. Another, sold-out event in the region will conclude on Sunday, and I suspect that a fair number of the 50 or so attendees at that event, including myself, would like to do some of the Strasburg events as well, but we’d have two days to kill. For steam enthusiasts, there’s virtually nothing going on on Mondays and Tuesdays in November. Even EBT is closed up tight during that time. Two days of hotels and a rental car adds hundreds to the cost of attending these events. And Tuesday is Election Day.... Scheduling the photo events the previous Wednesday and Thursday would have been much better timing. As they say, sometimes, timing is everything. Organizers of events such as these do well to research what their peers are doing and attempt to schedule their events not only to avoid conflicts, but to create opportunities to take full advantage of the presence of their target audience in the local area.

These are just my observations, as a guy who attends a lot of these deals..... :o)

/Kevin Madore