The description should be: "...this is a Plan 3950N 3 Compartment - 2 Drawing Room - lounge observation rebuilt from a 2 DR - 1 Comp - lounge observation..."

Yep, Ted... I do it too...

Thanks, Jerry and Olin, for the info!

Okay, that being the case, then this car is most likely one of the two MILW-owned Silver-series cars which are listed as being transferred to the MofW department in 1949:

Silver Beach to MofW #X-801.

Silver City to MofW #X-740.

Source:

"The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

I just acquired Barger's "A Century of Pullman Cars" (both volumes). Volume One has the following listing for a car named Constitution:

Wood private (business) car built in January 1906 in Lot #3262 to Plan #2110.

There is no listing for a car named Constellation.

Checking Volume Two, it lists that the Constitution was 1 of 3 such private cars built in that Lot: Constitution, Commonwealth, and Republic. These cars had 4 bedrooms: rooms A and D had full beds, B had a longitudinal "Davenport Lounge" sofa with upper berth, and C had the traditional facing section seats. Interestingly, there was a sofa in the dining room (with 8 seat table), and the sofa in the observation lounge had an upper berth (using the sofa's back).

The Constitution is listed as leased to the government during WWI (along with the Republic), and was sold in June 1937 to L.J. Drake.

Does anyone have more info on this car's subsequent ownership history, or if it is still located along the Des Plaines River as reported back in 2003? Thanks in advance!

Sources:

1. "A Century of Pullman Cars Volume One: Alphabetical List" by Ralph L. Barger (Greenburg Publishing, 1988)

2. "A Century of Pullman Cars Volume Two: The Palace Cars" by Ralph L. Barger (Greenburg Publishing, 1990)

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Info from Barger:

Built in March 1899 in Lot #2382 to Plan #1379B as a private (business) car with the name Glen Eyre. It was specifically built for use by George Westinghouse, and after his death in 1914, it was sold in July 1916 to the WP as #01, and was renumbered in July 1927 to #103.

Source:

"A Century of Pullman Cars Volume Two: The Palace Cars" by Ralph L. Barger (Greenburg Publishing, 1990)

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

I just recently made a trip up to Orrville to take a closer look at these two Pullmans since they are due to be scrapped soon unless a new owner is found. I discovered something interesting on one of the cars and wanted to share my findings with the group.

As I was inspecting PRR 492908, I found some of the original wooden window frames still in place on the car. When I checked them I found "Paul Revere" stamped on the side. So that got me thinking.

PRR had two 12-section, 1-drawing room heavyweight sleeping cars named Trenton.

Trenton (1st) is the one listed above as being PRR 492908, built in 1923 to Lot 4699, Plan 2410H, and off the roster by 1950.

Trenton (2nd) was built in 1925 to Lot 4894, Plan 3410A and was originally named Paul Revere but was renamed Trenton in 1951.

So is PRR 492908 actually Trenton (2nd)? If so then that means the two cars in Orrville were built together, served on the Broadway Limited together, put into MOW service at the same time, ended up together post career, and are still together 92 years later.

Okay, I was watching a video on YouTube just now, and this car showed up! It's now part of the Escanaba & Lake Superior collection. First car in the consist seen in the video, linked to below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsRowTP5xLA

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Folks,
i read a while back that the Glengyle of 1915 is the oldest Pullman heavyweight left. The sleeper is on display at the Museum of the American Railroad, Fresno, Texas.

Is this date still correct?

Ted Miles

PS Sorry, but I did not read all 34 pages again.

No, there are several all-steel heavyweight Pullman cars older than the Glengyle, both still in their original configurations (sleepers, parlors, and business cars), or rebuilt to other car types (coaches and baggage cars). 14 cars that are positively accounted for, and up to 3 additional cars that I don't have recent status info for.

Glengyle is an early car dating from 1910.

Glengyle:
service date 10-Dec-1910,
Plan 2522; 2522E on 6/1/37 7 Compartment - 2 Drawing Room car
Air Conditioning also as of 6/1/37
sold 1960 to Texas & Norther, to Age of Steam, Dallas, name change to Museum of the American Railroad

Information from Tom Madden's Pullman Project website.

I think the claim of the car being the oldest surviving Pullman was once made by its preserver, the Age of Steam museum at Dallas, Texas. This is now the Museum of the American Railroad in Frisco, Texas. The current website does not make that claim.

These 7-2 cars were used on high-end train service that demanded all-room cars.

If I recall correctly, the car was modified at some time (maybe the 1937 date) and alternate connecting doors were closed and a small closet was installed in each room at these locations.

Apologies for bumping this thread, but I've seemed to have run across some other cars not mentioned previously.

All of the cars are unknown, and what I do know is to the best of my knowledge, so any further light that can be shed upon them would be greatly appreciated.

-A Solarium Observation at a real-estate firm in Woody Creek, CO (near Aspen), it appears to be of a similar plan to the Mt. Series cars (that of 10 Section-Solarium Obs.) but I cannot confirm that.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mjstein1/29236263876/in/photostream/ (Michael Stein photo)

-Another unidentified car in use as a party room at the University of South Carolina's Williams-Brice stadium in Columbia, SC. The photo below is only a partial view of the car, photos of the equipment there are somewhat sparce so it was the best I could find at this time. (The car in on the right hand side of the photograph)
http://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/77527/DSC_0649.JPG (Jonathan Hinely photo)

-Another car at a restaurant in Houston, TX. It is currently painted as C&NW 300915, which is a MoW number, however I was unable to find info regarding C&NW MoW cars and former histories behind them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/luna715/8468056975/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/luna715/8469156914/in/photostream/ (Both photos luna715)

-A car on the Stone Mountain Scenic, the image is not the best, but from what I can see, it has had either one or both ends modified to an open platform.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/96665117@N02/19793659961/in/photostream/ (Andy Tucker photo)

-Two cars in use as a snack shop on the Black Hills Central in Hill City, SD. They are both former Parlor-Drawing Room cars that were sold to the US Army and converted to Hospital Cars. The numbers (as found from personal observations) are 552 and 553 respectively. Anyone happen to know the names of the cars?


(552, 553, Both photos are my own)

-Lastly, does anyone have any information on the number of cars used as a hotel at Indianapolis Union Station, by my estimated counts (gleaned from various photographs, an example of one of the cars is below), there are about 13 or so cars (might have duplicated one or two in my counts), 11 of which appear to be former Pullman sleepers and the other two appear to be former Pennsy coaches.
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/09/8e/d0/32/crowne-plaza-indianapolis.jpg (Photographer unknown)

Built in March 1899 in Lot #2382 to Plan #1379B as a private (business) car with the name Glen Eyre. It was specifically built for use by George Westinghouse, and after his death in 1914, it was sold in July 1916 to the WP as #01, and was renumbered in July 1927 to #103.

Source:

"A Century of Pullman Cars Volume Two: The Palace Cars" by Ralph L. Barger (Greenburg Publishing, 1990)

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.[/quote]


This was NOT the first GLEN EYRE:
BLANCHARD, BENJAMIN PV 1 "Private Car - ""LA PARADISE"" - for Benjamin Blanchard
Private Car GLEN EYRE has same plan number and is
credited to Benj. Blanchard (Floor Plan says ""GLEN EYRE"")
[RLB indicates sale cancelled, built as GLEN EYRE]" 1884 Lot 1105 Plan 247

Pullman Plan 2412B 16 Section sleeper INTREPID to TC 4150 (8/35) sold to C&NW 9/53, to X300915. From the book, THE COMPLETE ROSTER OF HEAVYWEIGHT PULLMAN CARS, Wayner Publications.



This car has been on Stone Mountain Scenic for many years but I have had no luck in figuring out which car this is. Hopefully something yet can be determined about it.

Ditto for the hospital ward cars on Black Hills Central... have known about them for a while now but nailing down identities of these two cars isn't something that is easy to do, what with records for cars rebuilt to hospital ward cars (most later to mortuary cars) being rather scarce. Here's hoping that some of these cars can be ID'ed.

The Central of Georgia acquired two Plan 3521A 10 Section - lounge observation cars from Pullman, Monte Rosa and Mt. Ouray... I would bet that this car is one of them. Monte Rosa became Central of Georgia 32802 PROGRESS Instruction car, which now resides in Orlando, Fl. Mt. Ouray is listed as being acquired as well but withdrawn from Pullman lease not quite a year after it was acquired. It wasn't selected by CofG to become a business car (both the ATLANTA and SAVANNAH histories are known) so what happened to this car? It yet may be that this is the car that is at Stone Mountain.

Cars at Indianapolis Crowne Plaza - Union Station

There are three groups of cars - Red Cars are on Track E, Green Cars on Track 1, Blue Cars on Track 8. These are the names on them (obviously not original), as well as the room numbers:

Blue Cars
001/002 - New York, Chicago & St. Louis "Charlie Chaplin"
003/004 - New York, Chicago & St. Louis/Pullman "Louis Armstrong"
005/006 - New York, Chicago & St. Louis "John Phillips Sousa"
007/008 - New York, Chicago & St. Louis/Pullman "Benjamin Harrison"
009/010 - New York, Chicago & St. Louis "Winston Churchill"

Green Cars
011/013 - Chicago, Indianapolis & Louisville "P.T. Barnum"
015/017 - Chicago, Indianapolis & Louisville "Diamond Jim Brady"
019/021 - The Hoosier Limited/CH&D "Rudolph Valentino"
023/025 - The Hoosier Limited/CH&D "Lillian Russell"

Red Cars
012/014 - "Greta Garbo"
016/018 - "Cole Porter"
020/022 - "Amelia Earhart"
024/026 - "Jean Harlow"

I can't find my details from crawling under them, but this should be a start....

Bart

Are these all heavyweights??? Anyone know of pictures of these cars???