Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

Topfuel · **Joined:** Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm **Posts:** 526

"Are these all heavyweights??? Anyone know of pictures of these cars???"

Yes, all heavyweights at the Indianapolis Union Station hotel, and I believe all came from Conrail MW service.

Needless to say, none of these cars are "fully restored" by any stretch of the imagination.

etalcos · **Posted:** Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:57 pm

jmlaboda wrote:

Quote:

This car has been on Stone Mountain Scenic for many years but I have had no luck in figuring out which car this is. Hopefully something yet can be determined about it.

The Central of Georgia acquired two Plan 3521A 10 Section - lounge observation cars from Pullman, Monte Rosa and Mt. Ouray... I would bet that this car is one of them. Monte Rosa became Central of Georgia 32802 PROGRESS Instruction car, which now resides in Orlando, Fl. Mt. Ouray is listed as being acquired as well but withdrawn from Pullman lease not quite a year after it was acquired. It wasn't selected by CofG to become a business car (both the ATLANTA and SAVANNAH histories are known) so what happened to this car? It yet may be that this is the car that is at Stone Mountain.

This car is the "Capital Heights".

jmlaboda · Updated 8/9/17 with 8,402 new links

Quote:

This car is the "Capital Heights".

With all respect intended it simply couldn't be... there has never been a Pullman car by that name.

Mount Royal · **Posted:** Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:40 am

Does anyone know what became of Mount Mansfield?

Topfuel · **Joined:** Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm **Posts:** 526

"This car is the "Capital Heights".

"With all respect intended it simply couldn't be... there has never been a Pullman car by that name.

Jim: See page 146 of the Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars by Wayner. Car Capitol Heights, ex-Monte Vista 10 sec obs lounge.

I assume "Capital" Heights in the thread is a typo and "Capitol" is the correct spelling.

VinylRailfan · **Posted:** Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:30 pm

jmlaboda wrote:

Quote:

Cars at Indianapolis Crowne Plaza - Union Station

Are these all heavyweights??? Anyone know of pictures of these cars???

Jerry, below are some links for images of some of the cars. A quick search found some views, few of which show the entire side of a car, but they are the best I've been able to find at the moment.

-"Lillian Russell": http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/09/1412850084021_wps_8_INDIANAPOLIS_INDIANA_SEPT.jpg (Barcroft USA photo)
-"Diamond Jim Brady": https://www.flickr.com/photos/kyrielle/238455879/ (Laura photo)
-"P.T. Barnum": https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/JVWBnMx8fbXo2o7fll7w2w/o.jpg (photographer unknown)
-"Benjamin Franklin": https://www.flickr.com/photos/jayztrainz/32886096173/ (Jason Leverton photo)
-"John Philip Sousa": https://www.flickr.com/photos/146901152@N02/34091414994/ (Keelson Group photo)
-"Winston Churchill": http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/09/1412850101557_wps_12_INDIANAPOLIS_INDIANA_SEPT.jpg (Barcroft USA photo)
-"Rudolph Valentino": https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/09/8e/d0/32/crowne-plaza-indianapolis.jpg (photographer unknown)

jmlaboda · Updated 8/9/17 with 8,402 new links

Quote:

I assume "Capital" Heights in the thread is a typo and "Capitol" is the correct spelling.

That works!!! Thanks!!!

Quote:

Jerry, below are some links for images of some of the cars.

Thanks!!! This is the first I have seen anything on these cars... surprising in a way but it looks like its pretty close corners which would preclude taking good shots of the cars.

bestazy · **Joined:** Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:24 am **Posts:** 1

Hello All,
I was wondering how many surviving examples of pullman heavyweight sleeper, parlour, and other would be pullman operated heavyweight cars left in existence today? Are there any surviving platform observation cars that were never business cars? What classes of cars have survivors?
Thanks,

Dennis Storzek · **Posted:** Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:15 am

The Illinois Railway Museum has the Pullman ten section-parlor-obs car INGLEHOME. This 1910 built car went from Pullman to the Illini Railroad Club, as their CHIEF ILLINI, and then to the museum about 1971.

VinylRailfan · **Posted:** Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:04 pm

bestazy wrote:

Hello All,
I was wondering how many surviving examples of pullman heavyweight sleeper, parlour, and other would be pullman operated heavyweight cars left in existence today? Are there any surviving platform observation cars that were never business cars? What classes of cars have survivors?
Thanks,

By my counts there are 439 or so sleepers, parlors, etc. in existence

As for open platform cars, several cars in the Mt./Mountain/Monte Series (10 Section-Obs.) that still exist in their relatively original forms along with other cars.

Below is a list of the cars, pulled from this thread as well as my own list, that are still extant that haven't been rebuilt to Business Cars. They are either in original form, mostly original form, or have been otherwise converted to MOW usage. I did include cars built as part of Pullman's Private Car fleet along with a handful of wood cars.

-"Central Park" 3-2-Lou.-Obs. (Lake Shore Railway Museum)
-"Central Plateau" (Cisco, IL)
-A Mystery Car at the Oklahoma Science Museum
-"Commandant" 10 Sect.-Obs. (Pacific Southwest Railway Museum)
-"Courtier" 10 Sect.-Obs., sold to B&O (Western Maryland Scenic)
-"Crystal Peak" 3-2-Lounge-Obs., as PV "Virginia City"
-"Empire State" Parlor-DR-Obs. (Fayetteville, AR)
-"Federal" Private Car (Arizona Railway Museum)
-"Ferdinand Magellan" Private Car (Gold Coast Railroad Museum)
-"Inglehome" 10 Sect.-Obs. (Illinois Railway Museum)
-"Los Angeles" Private Car (Southeastern Railway Museum)
-"Magdala" 10 Sect.-Lounge-Obs. (Reading RR Heritage Museum)
-"Monte Baldo" 10 Sect.-Obs. (Circus World Museum)
-"Monte Rosa" 10 Sect.-Obs. (Florida Railroad Museum)
-"Mountain Road" 10 Sect.-Obs. (Railway Museum of Greater Cincinnati)
-"Mt. Darwin" 10 Sect.-Obs. (Galveston Railroad Museum)
-"Mt. Doane" 10 Sect.-Obs. (Durham Museum, Omaha)
-"Mt. Hillers" 10 Sect.-Obs. (Tilton, NH)
-"Murphid" 10 Sect.-Obs. (RMGC)
-"Musina" 10 Sect.-Obs., sold to B&O (Whitewater Valley RR)
-"Ortega" 10 Sect.-Obs. (Manchester, VT) (Wood)
-"Silver xxxx" 2-1-Lou.-Obs. (Prairie du Chien, WI)
-"Tonawanda Valley" Single Bedroom-DR-Obs. (Danbury Railway Museum)
-"Veritas" Lounge-Compartment-Obs. (Conway Scenic Railroad) (Wood)
-Unknown 10 Sect-Obs., WVC 120 (Durbin & Greenbrier Valley)
-Unknown Parlor-Obs. (Ameristar Casino, Kansas City) (Wood)

christarie2011 · **Joined:** Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:14 pm **Posts:** 5

Engine 8374 is owned by my uncle, Kenneth Marks. I remember moving it from Illinois as well. We have some photos of us kids playing on the trains while my dad and uncle worked on the preparation of the move.

christarie2011 · **Joined:** Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:14 pm **Posts:** 5

My uncle also owns the Pullman car that used to sit by Stromsburg, NE, but I don’t have much information on the car itself. I have some photos of it being moved, which I can send by request only.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:48 am

Okay, got a mystery car (not necessarily a survivor, though that would be a nice update on if it's still around) that I can't find the history for. Looked in the usual sources, and zilch.

N&W MofW bunk car #563212.

Checked the archived versions of Jerry LaBoda's website, the N&WHS website, and Robert J. Wayner's "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars". No listings for the #563212. So any info on this car would be very much appreciated, and potentially if it's still around. Thanks in advance!

Here's a photo from the N&WHS website, taken by Robert G. Bowers in Decatur, IL, on 2/20/81.

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=147911

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/thumbs/slides/RB14342.jpg

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:01 am

On Saturday, July 4th, 2015, 5th Post on Page #31, Rainier Rails wrote:

I recently received some information on 3 surviving cars which have not yet been discussed in this thread, although the identities remain a mystery at this time:

The Orrville RR Heritage Society of Orrville, OH, is apparently in the process of moving locations, the new location being that of Dabo, Incorporated. There are several cars already at the Dabo site, which are not listed on the ORHS website, and I don't know for certain if these cars are owned by ORHS itself, ORHS members, or other private parties. Specifically, the information listed 3 heavyweight Pullmans, identities unknown...It should be noted that it apparently has come up elsewhere (where exactly I don't know) that at least some, if not most, of the cars which are already in storage at Dabo might be scrapped if new owners for these cars are not found.

On Wednesday, October 14th, 2015, 4th Post on Page #32, Rainier Rails wrote:

As posted in the Orrville RHS derailment thread, the 2 (not 3) Pullmans at the Dabo property have been identified:

415. Trenton (Lot #4699, Plan #2410H, 1923, 12S-1DR)--sold to PRR #8960 (1948) redesignated dormitory #6718 (1950) transferred to MofW department as bunk car #492908 (when??) acquired by Dabo, Inc. (when??) Dabo acquired by Orrville RHS (2015)

416. Parkesburg (Lot #4894, Plan #3410A, 1925, 12S-1DR, ex-Martha Washington [1st])--sold to PRR #8868 (1948) renamed from Martha Washington (1st) to Parkesburg (1951) transferred to MofW department as bunk car #492859 (1962) acquired by Dabo, Inc. (when??) Dabo acquired by Orrville RHS (2015)

On Monday, June 5th, 2017, 5th Post on Page #34, sou2404 wrote:

I just recently made a trip up to Orrville to take a closer look at these two Pullmans since they are due to be scrapped soon unless a new owner is found. I discovered something interesting on one of the cars and wanted to share my findings with the group.

As I was inspecting PRR 492908, I found some of the original wooden window frames still in place on the car. When I checked them I found "Paul Revere" stamped on the side. So that got me thinking.

PRR had two 12-section, 1-drawing room heavyweight sleeping cars named Trenton.

Trenton (1st) is the one listed above as being PRR 492908, built in 1923 to Lot 4699, Plan 2410H, and off the roster by 1950.

Trenton (2nd) was built in 1925 to Lot 4894, Plan 3410A and was originally named Paul Revere but was renamed Trenton in 1951.

So is PRR 492908 actually Trenton (2nd)? If so then that means the two cars in Orrville were built together, served on the Broadway Limited together, put into MOW service at the same time, ended up together post career, and are still together 92 years later.

Okay, given this info, the record should be changed to reflect it.

415. Trenton (Lot #4894, Plan #3410A, 1925, 12S-1DR, ex-Paul Revere [1st])--sold to PRR #8899 (1948) renamed from Paul Revere (1st) to Trenton (1951) transferred to MofW department as bunk car #492908 (1960) acquired by Dabo, Inc. (when??) Dabo acquired by Orrville RHS (2015)

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:11 am

On Sunday, January 28th, 2018, 10th Post on Page #34, VinylRailfan wrote:

Apologies for bumping this thread, but I've seemed to have run across some other cars not mentioned previously.

All of the cars are unknown, and what I do know is to the best of my knowledge, so any further light that can be shed upon them would be greatly appreciated.

-A Solarium Observation at a real-estate firm in Woody Creek, CO (near Aspen), it appears to be of a similar plan to the Mt. Series cars (that of 10 Section-Solarium Obs.) but I cannot confirm that.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mjstein1/29236263876/in/photostream/ (Michael Stein photo)

422. This isn't a Plan #2521/#3521 10S sleeper lounge observation, but either a Plan #4025 or #3989 8S sleeper restaurant lounge solarium observation.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

Who is online