ATSF 4-6-4 #3463

PRR8157 · **Joined:** Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:47 pm **Posts:** 43

This is a proposal to FUBAR a one-of-a-kind locomotive. This cannot be considered a restoration, unless you accept "restored to operation" as being paramount regardless of consequense to the artifact.

I suggest that before they even start tearing it apart, they set aside, in a trust, sufficient money to undo the damage they intend to inflict.

Better, if they are really serious about the project, they should raise enough money to build all-new. They can build it any way they like, to any design they like, and it will not be vandalising a historic locomotive.

Many preservationists on this thread are cheering it on. Don't they care?

Trevor Heath · **Posted:** Wed May 23, 2012 3:16 pm

Jeff Lisowski wrote:

Has anyone actually laid eyes on the engine since they "cleaned up"?

Or is that after picture just a clever photoshop?

I hate to sound so pesimistic.

Again I ask...

Did you bother to open the image link I posted showing the painting the marker board numbers....in place?

TH

Richard Glueck · **Posted:** Wed May 23, 2012 3:17 pm

PRR 8157, you just hit the nail on the head.

Lincoln Penn · **Joined:** Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm **Posts:** 841

PRR8157 wrote:

Many preservationists on this thread are cheering it on. Don't they care?

Judging by the condition and appearance of the locomotive as it sits, "many preservationists" haven't cared much about it for a long, long time.

brettcog2000 · **Joined:** Thu May 05, 2011 8:36 am **Posts:** 159

BINGO!!!!!!

robertmacdowell · **Posted:** Wed May 23, 2012 4:34 pm

I wonder what Santa Fe, Ann Arbor and NYC did to make the gods of steam forsake them. Units from those railroads have not done well.

Bobharbison · **Joined:** Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm **Posts:** 3013

Quote:

But with enough free money, you can build anything, whether it makes sense or not.

That's what the folks at Old Dominion University thought. They've been trying to build a maglev for well over 10 years and spent millions on the project. It has never gotten beyond the early test stage. This is a proven and established technology that is already in operation at various locations around the world, not some new design.

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/01/odus-st ... next-phase

Quoting Wikipedia

Quote:

Maglev

In 1999 ODU agreed to work with American Maglev on a project to build a Maglev system on its campus. The project was conceived as a test of the technology and spans less than a mile in length. Originally offered to several other institutes of higher learning, including Virginia Tech, all of these institutes rejected it due to concerns regarding the projected cost and safety of such a system. At least one of these concerns has proven true, as the $14 million originally slated towards this project has proven inadequate. Groundbreaking was held in 2001 and the project was completed in 2002 although the technology was proved defective. The original lofty goal of connecting Hampton Roads with Washington, D.C. by the Jamestown 2007 celebration was not met, but hope remains for the Maglev train as it is now a research project for the College of Engineering. The research team's objectives are to develop and demonstrate technologies for low-cost Maglev transportation systems.[34]

Bobharbison · **Joined:** Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm **Posts:** 3013

Quote:

"In November 2011, SRI acquired a large test bed steam locomotive"....they all ready own the engine....means they have an engine.....means this is more than a plan.....

How much did they pay to acquire the locomotive? For all we know, it was donated to the university for free.

So they have a locomotive in mind and a plan. That means they're a few steps into a very long journey. Even with some funding, there's no guarantee how far this will go. Could be a total sucess, could fade away next week when funding runs out.

If your memory is short, Google "Big Boy Restoration".

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Wed May 23, 2012 4:56 pm

Bobharbison wrote:

How much did they pay to acquire the locomotive? For all we know, it was donated to the university for free.

My understanding from a combination of other sources and "reading between the lines" is that the loco was acquired from its former custodians for little or no cost--effectively, taking an "albatross" of a rustbucket cosmetic restoration off their hands.

Which, not to belabor the point, doesn't speak well for how "historic" or "unique" this loco is. I have no firm reason yet to support this proposal, but it's about 25 years too late to be screaming "This loco is a historic treasure that has to be preserved as is!"

Ron Travis · **Joined:** Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm **Posts:** 1543

Lincoln Penn wrote:

PRR8157 wrote:

Many preservationists on this thread are cheering it on. Don't they care?

Judging by the condition and appearance of the locomotive as it sits, "many preservationists" haven't cared much about it for a long, long time.

If the locomotive sits in storage for 100 years, it retains the option for restoration to its original condition. If you read the proposal for the modern steam project, it sounds like they plan to change the boiler, drivers, cylinders, valves, piping, jacketing, and exhaust system. I suppose they will have to change the rods as well, and perhaps the feed water system. It will probably need an improved throttle. I imagine everything on the backhead will change. The fuel delivery system will probably need changing for the pellets. Once they go down that road, there will be no possibility of future restoration to its original condition.

What I will be waiting to see is if they immediately start to tear into the locomotive and making changes before they do all of the engineering and design of the new concept. I am betting that they will.

PCook · **Joined:** Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:16 am **Posts:** 2129

This is an interesting press release (and takes a bit of time to load). The President of Sustainable Rail International is a 2010 graduate of the University of Minnesota. (6th paragraph) Possibly this is a continuation of some project work done as an undergraduate?

http://environment.umn.edu/news_events/ ... 22012.html

PC

Bobharbison · **Joined:** Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm **Posts:** 3013

Ron Travis wrote:

If the locomotive sits in storage for 100 years, it retains the option for restoration to its original condition.

Or becomes a pile of rust that's declared unsightly, unsafe, unsuitable for the park or wherever it's located. Have you seen some of the EBT hoppers lately? They appear to be slowly getting eaten by metal moths.

I understand not wanting a one of a kind loco damaged. That makes total sense. But somebody dropped the ball in the first quarter and now you've got about 10 seconds on the clock and no timeouts.

Bobharbison · **Joined:** Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm **Posts:** 3013

So, I'm wondering... They state this bio coal has the same properties and energy density as regular coal.

If so, wouldn't a logical step 1 be to find a friendly tourist railroad, say "Interested in some free fuel?" and see whether old #72 can tell when she's given the bituminous version of the Folger's Crystals taste test?

Ron Travis · **Joined:** Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm **Posts:** 1543

I have not seen the engine. Is it beyond restoration at this point? From the way it has been described here, I assume it is a total wreck and that restoration is no longer an option.

YeOldeEnjine · **Joined:** Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:31 pm **Posts:** 329

Bobharbison wrote:

So, I'm wondering... They state this bio coal has the same properties and energy density as regular coal.

If so, wouldn't a logical step 1 be to find a friendly tourist railroad, say "Interested in some free fuel?" and see whether old #72 can tell when she's given the bituminous version of the Folger's Crystals taste test?

Bingo... I agree 101% percent with that comment. Run it thru #734 on the WMSR and see how that Baldwin reacts to the hockey pucks for fuel.

... The only reason I suggested #734 as I'm a little more familar with it as a hand fired locomotive before it was fitted with a stoker...