However, it should be noted that one who dreams in public runs certain risks. If your dreams and grand pronouncements don't come into reality, and it happens more than once, then there will be those who justifiably question your future dreams and proposals. They shouldn't be labeled or called anything because they ask legitimate questions.

As another NNN, I wondering how this fits in with the Yellow Ribbon Express, because its website indicates the following:

We are currently spending all of our energies constructing the full Program, Plan and Schedule (Business Plan) and Sponsor Acquisition Plan preparatory to seeking our five co-sponsors. We envision completing this phase by December 31, 2010. Then it will be hitting the road in search of our 5 partners. We hope to have that done by September 1, 2011.\

http://www.yellowribbonexpress.com/pdf/TIME%20LINE%20summary.pdf

So, pardon those of us that await something other than a website, ok?

Well good, now all but one of the NNN troop have signed in and don't worry the last one will be along sooner or later...sure as rain is wet!!

To the many who have asked how this now funded project will effect the Yellow Ribbon Express the answer is that they are totally distinct and seperate efforts with their only commonality being that I am the CEO of both.

The Greenbrier Express Company,Inc. is a W.Va. corporation whose purpose is to design,build, operate and maintain the Greenbrier Express (GBX) and see that it earns not only a respectable annual profit but also lives up to its biline..."World's Finest Train". The company is a majority owned subsidiary company of the James C. Justice Companies,Inc.,Beaver,W.Va. I am the President &CEO.

The Yellow Ribbon Express Foundation,Inc. is an Ohio non-profit whose sole purpose is to DBOM a national touring train that will salute those now serving in our Armed Forces ( and all who have served previously) AND raise a large sum of money through the " Billion for the Brave" fund, monies to be used in the years ahead to help those who come home severly wounded and their families get through life.

I have been working on the YRE project since Jan. 16,2006 when I made a presentation to LTG. Ben Freakley the then C/O of the 10th. Mtn. Div. the Armys most deployed division. Ben encouraged me to go forward and I've been at it since. The YRE Foundation,Inc. has recieved IRS approval as a 501 C 3 . We were very close 18 months ago to getting the corporate support we need to get it launched ( $ 75 million in co-sponsorships) when the economy/stock market crashed. Lord willing I'll stay at it till it happens!!! It took nearly 5 years and 54 corporate " no's" till we got the first "yes" with the American Freedom Train effort...so I guess these things just take perserverance!!!


Thanks to all for your well wishes with the GBX. It's gonna be a " blast from the past" to be sure!!

Ross Rowland

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.” -Theodore Roosevelt

Thanks for that posting Mr. Hussar. I've often thought of that quote and it has given me strength to carry on more than once.

Ross Rowland

To Ross Rowland, Good to see that some things I have heard rumblings of over the last couple of months are real! It is great to see that things are coming together. Best wishes to you in this new venture.

To the ones who are throwing stones and focusing on things that did not or are yet to come to pass, I think of what Bob Spaugh used to remind me of... How many times did Babe Ruth strike out? For those of you who do not know Bob Spaugh... well lets just say he once saved a dark horse.

From what I can see the Greenbriar Express is something that I am very excited to see happening and may be a sign of good things to come for Steam Railroading ni the future just as the American Freedom Train was in the mid 70s who knows maybe a piece of the AFT might even end up in the consist... there are still a few of them around. ;)

Good Luck to you on this Ross!!!

Mark A. Frazier X-:

An interesting side-light with regard to the 490's possible - if very long-shot! - inclusion in Ross' GBX trio is that it uses poppet valves, which are a key component of that ultimate steamer that could have taken on dieselization. As far as I know, the 490 and 611 are the only preserved mainline steam machines with these valves (and, according to a post I read recently, the 611's were not standard such valves, specifically a D model instead of the standard Franklin A). So if the 490 were used, it would in a small way be picking up where steam development left off.

How about a little blue-sky thinking, like propsing AP 4449 as one of Ross' trio? Preposterous? Maybe not. It's being evicted from the Brooklyn Roundhouse next year, apparently. See

http://www.orhf.org/campaign.html

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/sto ... 8577045600

So it's looking for a new home....

And they're going to break ground on that new home in the next few years:

As lovely as the notion of a railway museum near rail transit might be -- I've looked a lot at what makes railway museums work, and what does not.

Urban location -- bad. It invites:
* Vandalism (several museums).
* Your neighbors will pressure you about the "junk lying around" (Orange Empire Ry Mus, countless others).
* You are boxed in and cannot expand (Branford, Fox River, others).
* You risk getting priced out by development (PLA, GGRM, ORM) most especially if transit is being built to your doorstep. Given Portland's obsession with New Urbanism, you can take to the bank that there WILL be offices and high density housing built on those parcels. It WILL happen, don't get in its way or you will get run over.

Hello Mr. Rowland. First, I would like to thank you for all you have done with mainline steam. Second, I would like to wish you great success with the Greenbrier Express.

In an earlier post, you asked for input as to which locos should be stablemates for 614. I would like to post my thoughts on this, for you and for others to comment on.

I am in total agreement with you that one loco should be an H-8 2-6-6-6. I’m sure the B&O Museum would agree to your lease terms for #1604, but I don’t think the Henry Ford Museum will part with #1601.

Sticking to the preference of C&O heritage, a second candidate could be a C&O K-4 2-8-4 Kanawha, possibly #2716.

My third suggestion involves two western locos. They are A.T.S.F. 2-10-4 #5021, and A.T.S.F. 4-8-4 #2925. Both of these locos are owned by the California State Railroad Museum. Unfortunately, the museum has no room for them, and can not properly care for the engines. The engines are currently located on a storage track about a mile from the museum. Both have roller bearings on ALL axles (engine & tender). Both are high drivered, and could easily do 70 mph. If there is a concern with the 5021’s wheelbase, she could be fitted with a flangeless set of tires on her 3rd set of drivers, to negotiate curves easier. Regarding a lease agreement, I’m sure the museum would readily agree to your terms.

Those are my candidates. I look forward to your comments.

Or: urban location - if it is the RIGHT location - best.

One element in a group of connected attractions that cross-feed custom, and can cooperatively market huge events to bring in huge crowds beats standing alone in a field of weeds wondering if anybody will show up.

On transit means nobody has to make a trip just to get into the outback - which drastically compounds the amount of commitment we're asking our potential customers to make even before they reach our doors.

Boxed in means nothing if you are the right size for what you want to accomplish. Keeping your size down to what you can do and do well also eliminates the junkyard aspect of having acres of crap rusting around the place. Everybody doesn't need to expand - there's an optimum size for the mission at hand.

Vandalism happens everywhere there aren't people watching, whether in the city or the sprawl. If your urban location is secured, with police presence nearby, you are less likely to be successfully targeted than a trainyard full of attractive nuisances out in the woods somewhere woud be. Sharing property with a nest of other attractions means cooperative security is affordable.

Nothing can be done about development pressure no matter where you are - economics and politics form an unholy alliance through the medium of campaign contributions (if not outright bribes), and next thing you know a Wal Mart warehouse, chain convenience store, or Big Box Discounter now sits on your connection to the outside world. Less likely if you are a valued integral part of a city, than an outside entity somewhere outside of any sense of community nobody besides your own people (who live in that city somewhere else) care about.

I agree with more than 90% of your carefully considered postings Robert, and I see how valid your perspective on this issue is for certain traditional models, but I think those models are based on a 40 year old conception of what a railroad museum is supposed to look like. I'm seeing a move towards connected, integrated clusters of smaller but better quality businesses, attractions, and residential developments - even including smaller stores run by Big Box entities - based on sustainability, which is here whether we want it our not. We need to rethink oursleves in terms of how we can fit into this emerging picture. I think being in it matters.

Yeah, fuel for another thread or a few.......

dave

Such as the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry, shown as OMSI on the map of ORHF's proposed new home (the one labeled "Site 2").

Kurt wrote:

> As far as I know, the 490 and 611 are the only preserved mainline steam machines
> with these valves (and, according to a post I read recently, the 611's were not
> standard such valves, specifically a D model instead of the standard Franklin A).

_______________________________________________________________________

Ummmm....who told you that the 611 has poppet valves? It most certainly does not. The N&W never had an engine with poppet valves, nor did they ever experiment with them. All their modern engines used piston valves. Are you perhaps thinking about Pennsy's T1's?

You are right about the 490. It does indeed have poppet valves.

He may be referring to US Army S-160 2-8-0 #611, which has Franklin poppet valves. That engine and C&O 490 are the only two poppet valve equipped locomotives extant in the US.

Howard P.

You could be right. He may be confusing the N&W 611 with the Army 611.