If you open up any hole, use your rader to sniff out things first. There is no way anyone is going to jump right to it ad do whatever, especially with possible boobytraps.

This has to be one super careful dig/check.

Update- the guys who found it have gone public:

http://news.yahoo.com/men-claiming-disc ... 37633.html

As long as the GPR image is indeed authentic, having such good image quality at that depth would tend to indicate the site is quite dry. If this thing really is down there, it could be well preserved.

The Polish TV news has been saying the train isn't in a tunnel, but is buried... that view certainly isn't supported by the image.

Steve Hunter

What are you looking at? The link above didn't have any photos of what these guys are claiming to have. I watched the video and went through the slideshow. Nothing.
I'm quite tired of all the headlines saying this thing has been "found" when in fact, I have seen zero actual proof that it exists at all. And the longer such info stays hidden, the more I'm inclined to believe this is an utter hoax.
Anyone else recall the TIGAR group who on numerous occasions have declared they've found parts of Amelia Earhart's plane, but never actually have? This whole thing smacks of the same thing, to me.

This article contains the best evidence in the form of a detailed image of the GP radar:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... dence.html

I doubt that many people could be prepared for the emotional experience of going underground and confronting that monster. When Ballard found the Titanic, he had described the intense emotion of that discovery. I guess the emotion is in finally having the long vision of the search confirmed in stark reality, telling its sad and tragic story in the debris field it deposited on the bottom so long ago.

Going into the chamber of the Nazi armored train will likely produce a powerful emotional experience as well. But, unlike the haunting emotion of the Titanic discovery, the emotion of the armored train will be terror; not only because of the prospect of booby traps, but also just for the pure evil that it stands for. I would expect it to have quite a vibe.

And I bet that powerful emotion will be crushing disappointment and anger at being hoodwinked by some people with no clue, making comical declarations. I can't for the life if me see how any intelligent person could be falling for this!
Seriously? THIS is the proof?

Could be anything, could be doors with stuff around them in a tunnel. Could be someone's sewer system for crying out loud.
This is like those people who badly want to believe in Bigfoot and will point to a blurry video, to a spot you can't recognize anything but more trees, and declare, "There, that's clearly Bigfoot"...
Puh-lease. Until someone busts out a shovel, digs up the area, then has something to show for it, I'll call BS on it because it certainly isn't "confirmed", nor "found"!

Lee, I fully understand how you feel- one needs to stay skeptical and not develop hopes beyond what is supported by the evidence.

This is very similar to the Canadian government's ongoing search for Franklin's ships in the arctic. After 150 years of searching, neither the Erebus or Terror had been found. Most people felt it was a wild goose chase.

Yet, now, Parks Canada marine archaeologists are surveying the well- preserved Erebus on the ocean floor. The steam locomotive carried onboard as auxiliary power will be seen soon, if it hasn't already. And, the search also discovered the Investigator, which was lost while searching for Franklin's ships.

Is there really a Nazi armoured train in that tunnel? Who knows... although the radar image suggests there is a good possibility. At that depth, they need to use a long wavelength, which limits the detail that can be revealed. As you say, nobody should get too excited until the tunnel opening is unearthed and access is possible.

However, there is nothing wrong with cautious optimism, and having an interest in following the story as it unfolds. I certainly hope to see the finders' GPR results verified by a third party, whether by the government or a private company hoping to show off the capabilities of their equipment.

Time will tell!

Steve

Which is why the first thing the Poles should do is contract with a service that does this sort of work to set up where the "finders" say it is located and do an independent survey. They will either get similar results, or get nothing, in which case we know it's a hoax.

You might be very right that might be what I'm thinking of. I just was thinking Baltimore instead of Richmond. Maybe I'm confusing the two.

Doug vV

If I had a dog in this fight, I might see the need to be supremely skeptical. I'm sitting here at a computer half a world away, and it doesn't cost or earn me a dime whether they find it or not.

I think it'll be cool as hell if they find it. If they don't, it causes me absolutely no inconvenience.

I have no stake in whether it is true or not. I won’t know until it is documented. But I also would not take a firm position that it cannot possibly be true at this point. I assume that the radar image has deeper levels of credentials and verification besides just suddenly appearing on the Internet.

Part of this type of search imaging is to factor in what you are looking for and weigh the probability of the image matching the subject of the search. This is particularly true with magnetometer searches because they do not produce an image of the detected subject. Ground penetrating radar does produce an image essentially, but the image can be very abstract and not having much resemblance to the subject of the search.

If this image purported to be the train is authentic, considering that the search subject is an armored train with its unique shaped masses, guns, etc., perhaps 300 feet long, and parked in a tunnel; then I would say this is about as solid as the radar evidence could possibly be.

Wouldn't the color bands indicate the material from which the signal is being reflected? Certainly provocative, and perhaps a dead-end, but for right now, I'm willing to give it some credence.

I am leery of the Polish government deciding to conduct their own ground penetrating radar survey to confirm the survey submitted by the treasure hunters.

If they find nothing, it does not prove that the other survey image is false, or that the train is not there. That would be like proving a negative. Then the search credibility becomes a battle of credentials between the two treasure hunters with their positive survey and the Polish government with their negative survey. At that point, the Polish government declares the positive survey to be a hoax, and the story ends there.

This goes to the question of the origin and authenticity of the GP radar image that is thought to portray the armored train. If the treasure hunters merely handed over a sheet of paper showing that image with no further explanation, it would make sense for the government to search the same location with their own GP radar and see what they find. But I would hope that the treasure hunters were able to convey enough information about their data to prove that the image was not just a handmade painting on paper.

But if another search is needed to validate the image, it would also make sense for the government to take the two treasure hunters and their radar to the site with them, and have them work side by side with the Army to make sure both parties are in the same location and using the same technique. This process should be made clear enough to see the origination of the data from each survey. That way, the two surveys should be expected to match. If they don’t match, nothing has been proven or disproved except one of the surveys is wrong.

Actually, at this point, the most logical next step would be to go to the location of the survey made by the treasure hunters, and bore a vertical shaft into the indication of the tunnel. The most logical next step would NOT be to bring in another GPR system and its operators; and see if they can get the same result.

It seems to me that in popular legends like this, there develops a large investment in the belief that it is true, and an equal investment in the belief that it is a hoax. So in the government bureaucracy, there will be both camps. The hoax camp will be providing counterproductive energy to protect their investment. They will naturally worry about safety and funding. There is already public criticism of spending public funds on something that might be a hoax.

Definitely, in the interest of full transparency the finders and their equipment should be there at the same time. That avoids the chance of a false negative (due to less powerful equipment or less capable operators), or even a cover-up.

However, none of our opinions matter much... this thing could easily be swayed by individual agendas if the Polish government isn't careful.

The cynic in me was wondering about the local governor's vehement denial of the evidence supplied by the finders... does he have a shovel and pickaxe, just waiting for the attention to die down, LOL?

No matter what the outcome, this is an interesting story to watch.

Steve Hunter