Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Mon Jan 13, 2025 3:11 am

Update:

On Tuesday, September 23rd, 2014, 7th Post on Page #24, Rainier Rails wrote:

235. Courtier (Lot #4353, Plan #2521B, 1915, 10S-lng-obs)--sold to B&O #7400 (1948) to MofW #X-4300 (1950) renumbered to #940704 (when??) to Chessie System sold to WMSR (when??)

Via the Surviving Passenger Cars group on Facebook, a report was posted that this car was in the process of being prepped for scrapping (already partially disassembled) this last Summer at WMSR.

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Mon Jan 13, 2025 4:09 am

Update:

On Sunday, December 25th, 2022, 14th & 15th Posts on Page #50, Rainier Rails wrote:

373. Palm Point (Lot #6337, Plan #3975F/H/J/X, 1930, 3C-1DR-buf-lng-obs-sol, Everglades Limited)--sold to NP #1735 (1948) to #349 (1949) to #749 (1953) retired (1965) sold to Depot House Express restaurant (Rochester, MN) restaurant closed, property to Salvation Army (Rochester) later resold to Doug Brown (Farmington Hills, MI) later resold to Richard Henderson (Silver Springs, MD) later resold to Midwest Chapter NRHS-Midwest Railway Heritage Foundation (MRHF) (Cleveland), MRHF later renamed to Midwest Railway Preservation Society (MRPS), car listed for sale in 2014 and resold to Richard Kulik, still located at the MRPS ex-B&O roundhouse in Cleveland, undergoing restoration

As posted in the Surviving Passenger Cars group on Facebook, by the car's one-time owner, Doug Brown, this car is now listed for sale:

https://ozarkmountainrailcar.com/railEquipment.php?itemId=4106&category=Passenger%20Equipment

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sat Jan 18, 2025 11:09 pm

Update:

On Monday, January 6th, 2014, 10th Post on Page #3, Rainier Rails wrote:

7. Kitchi Gammi Club (Lot #4690, Plan #4025R, 1923/37, 8S-buf-sol-lng-obs, NKP, ex-Mountain View)--sold to NKP #7 (1948) to N&W #107 (1964) to #521417 to VA Rail Investment Corp #7 (#800705) (1989)

As posted in several groups on Facebook, Chuck Akers and Chuck Jensen of VRIC have now sold this car to the Fort Wayne RHS.

Here's the announcement as posted by Mr. Jensen:

Chuck Jensen wrote:

Chuck Akers and Chuck Jensen after owning the historic passenger car Kitchi Gammi Club for 36 years announce the sale of the car to the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society.

The former Nickel Plate Car 7 will join steam locomotive NKP 765 as part of the historic operating equipment of the group.

Virginia Rail Investment Corporation actually owned the car longer than the NKP/N&W/NS combined.

Akers and Jensen purchased the car from NS in 1989 as it was headed to scrap. The car was completely refurbished and first operated in 1994 with its first revenue trip behind N&W 611 thought out the last year of the original NS Steam Program. The Amtrak certified car operated tens of thousands of miles while under Virginia Rails ownership with multiple trips each year.

The car which is the only Amtrak certified heavyweight open section car left operating in the United States ran multiple trips per year and regularly operated to most of the NRHS conventions since 1997.

Virginia Rail is excited to transfer the ownership to the Fort Wayne Group so that it legacy may be carried forward.

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Thu Jan 23, 2025 8:53 pm

Update:

On Thursday, July 9th, 2020, 8th Post on Page #41, Rainier Rails wrote:

452. Unknown 12S-1DR sleeper used as part of a business along the former CB&Q in Parkville, MO. The business has since closed, based on what I can tell at this point, car is not in any immediate danger; I am currently waiting on a possible answer to this car's ID, will update in the future if said info becomes known.

Another TO thread from 2011, apparently the car was formerly part of the "Vassar Junction Restaurant"/"Vassar Playhouse" near Vassar, KS (but again, nothing on the car's ID): https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,2495928

As posted in the Pullman Company group on Facebook, this car has received a fresh coat of Pullman Green paint, and is now lettered as Willoughby, though this is not the car's actual former Pullman name.

As posted there by local John Perkowski, an explanatory note:

John Perkowski wrote:

Because ever since I arrived in Parkville in 1989, the common assessment, sponsored by known people of that generation, such as David Engle, believe that the car had come from a Missouri Pacific scrapping sale.

By the way, the name is not the original car name, David Duncan worked with the current owners and the list of cars of the 2410 type in Kansas City to determine what were the available cars by name, then the site owner picked one of those names.

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:51 pm

Update:

On Wednesday, January 8th, 2014, 3rd Post on Page #7, Rainier Rails wrote:

Where Are They Now?

Augusta (Lot #4160, Plan #4018, 1913/32, buf-plr-lng, ACL, ex-Ashland, nee-Folkstone)--sold to ACL (1944) to Tennessee Southern #2 Miss Judy

On Wednesday, January 8th, 2014, 4th Post on Page #7, jmlaboda wrote:

The last I have heard about this car it was being stored indoors in Mount Pleasant, Tn. was the last report, but it is up for sale.

As posted in the Pullman Company group on Facebook, this car is currently in the process of being scrapped.

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Fri Mar 07, 2025 4:47 am

Another Survivor:

As posted in the Railroad Passenger Car Photos group on Facebook.

493. Wilmington (Lot #3986, Plan #2416, 1912, plr [26]-1DR, PRR)--sold to CN (8/1941) and converted to 62 seat coach #5310 (2/1942), to GTW #5310 (c. 1948), now located at ex-MC depot, Lansing, MI

Photos:

1. 11/23/2019: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5230722 (Nicholas Katz photo)

2. 08/08/2009: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1716903 (Nicholas Katz photo)

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Railroad Passenger Car Photos group on Facebook

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Fri Apr 11, 2025 1:15 pm

More Survivors:

As posted in the following thread: https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45060

494. Welaka (Lot #4318, Plan #2410B, 1915, 12S-1DR, NYNH&H)--13S Tourist #1163 (9/1941)--sold to B&M (11/1949) and converted to baggage #3294 (12/1950) to #3309 (4/1954) to MofW service #W309 (10/1961) to Guilford, to Pan Am, to CSX, donated to 470 Club (5/2023)

495. Crysler (Lot #3893, Plan #2410, 1911, 12S-1DR, NYC)--13S Tourist #1568 (12/1940)--sold to B&M (11/1949) and converted to baggage #3289 (12/1950) to #3304 (8/1954) to MofW service #W304 (10/1961) to Guilford, to Pan Am, to CSX, active at least through 2023

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Fri Apr 11, 2025 1:39 pm

Another Survivor:

As posted in the Railroad Passenger Car Photos group on Facebook.

496. Annadore (Lot #4106, Plan #2410, 4/1913, 12S-1DR, IC)--13S Tourist #1950 (6/1941)--sold for scrap (6/1954) to unknown party (Wickwire-Spencer-Roblin Steel?), stored North Tonawanda, NY, as of 4/2006

As this is a new find, I took some time to see if any more recent information on this car could be found. Using the photos from 2006, the given latitude and longitude coordinates (42.984966 N, -78.936499 W) plugged into Google Earth reveals via satellite imagery (dated 4/2024) that the car is still in-situ nearly two decades later. Car is located in the woods on the west side of state highway 266, directly south of the Lafarge cement plant.

2006 Photos:

4/23/2006: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sigma/3455175707/ (Chris Smart photo)

4/27/2006: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sigma/135862408 (Chris Smart photo)

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Railroad Passenger Car Photos group on Facebook

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sun Jul 20, 2025 9:04 pm

Update:

On Tuesday, May 7th, 2019, 4th Post on Page #40, Rainier Rails wrote:

99. Queen Anne (Lot #4862, Plan #3957/C/G/H, 5/25, 26 seat-1DR, Black Diamond) to WAB (12/31/45), platform enclosed and renamed City of Peru (with 27? seats) in 12/56 (Plan #3957L), to N&W?, sold at unknown date to Nugent Bros. Roofing Co., resold at unknown date to Danville Industries, resold at unknown date to Smoky Hill RHS, resold at unknown date to Lewis Austin, later to storage at Comet Industries (exact ownership at this time unknown), resold circa 2008 to NOPB, plans were to have P. Messina rebuild it to a sleeper, plans cancelled with the shakeup in NOPB management and questions over millions spent on the other 2.

As posted in another thread in June 2024, this car is now in the collection of the North Carolina Transportation Museum.

https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30677

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sun Jul 20, 2025 9:20 pm

Correction & Added Ownership Info:

On Monday, January 6th, 2014, 10th Post on Page #3, Rainier Rails wrote:

48. Mt. Doane (Lot #4816, Plan #3521, 1924, 10S-buf-sol-lng-obs)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Midwest Steel (1961) sold at unknown date to William W. Kratville, d.b.a., Autoliner Corporation, as Cornhusker Car, sold at unknown date to Durham Western Heritage Museum (Omaha)

This car while owned by Bill Kratville was renamed to Cornhusker Club, not Cornhusker Car. Note that I also previously did not list said ownership between Midwest Steel and the museum.

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sun Jul 20, 2025 9:35 pm

Update:

On Friday, January 10th, 2014, 8th Post on Page #7, Rainier Rails wrote:

213. Zana (Lot #4366, Plan #2416C, 1916, 1DR-plr, PRR)--sold to N&W (3/1941) and converted to coach #779 (6/1941) to MofW foreman-bunk #526401 (10/1947) to #521412 (12/1956) to safety car #999000 (unknown date) to NS #999000 to VMT (unknown date)

As posted in March in the Railroad Passenger Car Photos group on Facebook by Gary Gray, this car was sold circa 2019 by VMT to a private owner, and has now been moved to storage at the Roanoke Chapter NRHS.

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sun Jul 20, 2025 9:48 pm

Update:

On Monday, January 6th, 2014, 1st Post on Page #5, Rainier Rails wrote:

144. East Newark or East Norwood (Lot #4868, Plan #3410A, 1925, 12S-1DR, B&O)--sold to B&O (1948) to business car #905 (1948 or 1966) sold at unknown date to private ownership as the Wayside sold at unknown date to private ownership as the Silver Spring (#800329) sold at unknown date to the Adirondack Scenic RR

As posted in another thread, this car was resold again circa 2023-2024 to a private owner, and now has been acquired as of earlier this month by the Western Maryland Scenic RR.

https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48845

(I've modified the quote from earlier in this thread to make the information clearer.)

As I posted in the linked thread, this car's exact history (regarding which 12-1 it was converted from) is still somewhat of a mystery. I need to do some additional research in hopes of ultimately clarifying this.

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sun Jul 20, 2025 10:33 pm

Car Identified:

On Tuesday, January 7th, 2014, 7th Post on Page #6, Rainier Rails wrote:

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31717

The same thread mentions another heavyweight which was formerly "Kennickell's Pullman Palace" in Richmond, and was for sale at some point. Apparently it was also a Plan #3521 10S-lng-obs.

On Saturday, August 23rd, 2014, 12th Post on Page #20, Rainier Rails wrote:

First off, a mystery car in Oilville, VA, the subject of this thread: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1739

According to the linked thread, this car was formally part of a restaurant, and before that, was at a branch of the now defunct Heritage Savings & Loan.

At this point, I am not assigning the mystery car in Oilville a new line item number, as I'm wondering if it is the same car that was earlier mentioned as formally being located at the Kennickell's Pullman Palace in Richmond, which I have listed as a 10S lounge observation, with line item #289. I searched for photos and checked Google Earth, but could not find any satellite or photographic evidence of the car's current status or location in Oilville; keep in mind that the linked thread is from May 2001--the only reference in said thread as to the car's location in Oilville being that the adjacent field was used for the annual "Field Day of the Past", a truck-tractor pull in September.

Can anyone confirm/deny that the car in Oilville is indeed the car formally at Kennickell's Pullman Palace or if these are two different cars, and if so, what the respective history/histories are? Thanks in advance!

On Saturday, November 12th, 2022, 7th Post on Page #48, Rainier Rails wrote:

484. Plan #2521 10S-lng-obs located at Field Day of the Past, Wingmead, VA

After speaking with a resident of Ashland, VA, who is very knowledgeable with this car, back in April, this car has now been identified as:

484. Mt. Foraker (Lot #4742, Plan #3521, 1923, 10S-lng-obs, C&NW)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to FtDDM&S (1954) sold at unknown date to Heritage Savings & Loan (Richmond, VA) bank closed circa 1990-1991 and subsequently sold to restaurant (Oilville, VA) sold circa 2000 to Field Day of the Past (Wingmead, VA)

While the steam tractor meet known as Field Day of the Past is no longer occurring, the car is still in situ on the property in Wingmead, and the property owner is very cooperative as far as any efforts that may yet result in the car's continued use/existence, either while still on said property or a potential move elsewhere. The individual I talked to is in communication with the landowner, and has also worked over the last several years to formulate a plan for the car.

And no, I asked, and they do not think that this car was the car located at Herman H. Kennickell Jr.'s Pullman Palace, so either that is indeed another Plan #2521/#3521 car, or there was some confusion in the past regarding prior sale listings for the Mt. Foraker. Interestingly, there is a listing of a sale of a lightweight Plan #4066B 12DXSB-5DB sleeper from the PRR to Kennickell, the #8035 James Hay Reed (ex-Moor Brook).

As for how a car sold to a shortline in Iowa ended up instead in the Richmond area, I haven't a clue, and neither does the local resident, but I do have an idea, further research required.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. "Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sun Jul 20, 2025 11:00 pm

Another Survivor:

497. Henry Stanley (Lot #6037, Plan #3972, 1927, private car)--sold to AT&SF #20 (2nd) (1/1944) sold to Grant's Supply Company #200 Louis W. Grant (Tulsa, OK) (1/1971) and used in charter service in Mexico, sold at unknown date to private ownership and stored in Querétaro, Mexico

I had long had this car in my list of potentially surviving cars, but which had not been confirmed as still extant. (Many of which I have mentioned over the years in this thread, but not the Stanley.)

Sure enough, this car turned up during inquiries in several groups on Facebook back in May, with replies seemingly confirming that this car is still in storage south of the border.

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. "Santa Fe Railway Passenger Car Reference Series - Volume Four: Business & Special Purpose Cars" by Frank M. Ellington & Joseph W. Shine (Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society, 2008)

5. Surviving Passenger Cars group on Facebook

6. The Pullman Company group on Facebook

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sun Jul 20, 2025 11:24 pm

Scrapped Car:

Information from Jacob Carey.

The Heart of Dixie Chapter NRHS received a donation of two Plan #3585 10-1-2's from the Southern in 1964, the Lake Ainslie (line item #219) and the Lake Harney. While the Ainslie is still very much a survivor and is well looked after, the Harney did not share the same positive fate. It was traded by the Chapter in circa 1966-1967 to a scrap firm in return for SLSF buffet lounge #1603 Glendale.

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

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